Hi! I've got a pair of these which I'm having trouble sexing. I've been putting it off and assuming I've got a male and a female even though their behaviour gives me some doubts. Recently they've grown on some and they are now rearing up on each other. It is important to sex them because if they are both males I'll have to likely move one on sharpish. Here is some images.

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/3.jpg

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/2.jpg

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/1.jpg


Right. The same fish are on the left or right to make it easier. When I got them and since I've had them I've assumed that the guy on the left is a male Pros:cons.

Pro
Guy on left has more trailing fins of a male
Guy on left shows more aggressive attitude, chasing etc
More colouration in the body even if it is iffy.

Cons
Growing slower
Less colouration in the face

Been assuming the lady on the right is a female. Pros:cons.

Pro
Shows rounder fins.
As peaceful as it gets
Plainer body

Cons
Mucho face colouration
Growing faster

They fight for a while. Usually the 'female' wins and the 'male' rests. Occasionally the male wins and the 'female' hangs out and gets rubbed/flicked against for a while. They've been lip locking alot though so I can't really let it keep on forever, like for half an hour once the lights are on.

Heres some pics from when I got them. The guy on the left.

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/100_4963.jpg

And the one on the right.

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/100_4966.jpg

This isn't my area of expertise, but I think you got it the wrong way around.

I always thought that the GTs with more spangly faces were the males. I may be confusing that with another cichild, but that's what I thought.

Oh hey yeah I've not made a 100% diagnosis and that is why it is listed in the pros and cons for each fish. The one that acts male is growing slower and has less facial colouration and the one that is acting female is growing faster and has more spangles. Maybe the confusion should just leave me to assume I've got two males?

I'm not really experienced with cichlid spawning but I assume that if they were actually a male and female they'd actually stop and spawn after a day or two of this right? Though today they've stopped lip locking.

I'm trying to get them ID'd quick because I'm taking a trip to a fish shop tomorrow to pickup some more silver dollars and I'll be able to return one of them if so.

For some reason I can't get any of your links to work. Maybe it is just me. Lip locking is not always a sign of spawning it could also be a sign of 2 males claiming their territory. I wish I could see the pics but I'm not sure I would be much more help. Are they waving their tails at each other? Do you see them cleaning off any rocks or glass areas preparing a place for the eggs?

I'm guessing it is just you with the images! I can't find anything wrong with them unless the forum gallery I've linked from is down (it sometimes has a little downtime).

Guy on the right is showing a couple of small wounds now. Missing scales. Guy on the left is about as dark as it is possible to get without being black and spends most of the time hiding.

Mrs beast who has been watching them while I was at work today swears they are fine but when one is obviously wounded and another is too stressed to come out and eat I doubt it will end well. I think I better take one back tomorrow.

Oh and on behaviour, first thing they size each other up. They flare gills. They lip lock. If the 'male' wins then he spends some time flicking his tail and rubbing against the other. If the 'female' wins then the male hides for a few hours.

No rocks or glass clearing. I've got some pots as caves in the tank and sometimes they'll both go in there after fighting but could be coincidence. If you can try the pics again please do and have a comment because I'll be taking one back tomorrow otherwise and I won't have a chance to make it to this shop again for a while.

Number 1 shop in the country. It is a fair way to travel. They've got a 1800gal tropical turtle/mixed fish tank which I'll try and get a snap of for you saint!

OK the pics work now. I'm not 100% sure but I think the one on the right is the male and the left is the female. I had this same problem with my pair of severums. The male will test the female to see if she is strong enough to spawn with. My male gave the female a serious beating a few times and I decided to separate them with an eggcrate for a couple of weeks. You could try that. What size tank are they in?

I can show you a pic of how I separated my tank when i get home. I just used some of the white plastic eggcrate diffuser that they sell for florescent light fixtures. I cut it to fit my tank and separated my tank in half. When I put them back together after a couple of weeks there were never any repeat issues with mine.

I keep hearing of this eggcrate stuff from Americans but I've not got a clue of what it is. Here eggcrates come made of a high fibre cardboard/paper pulp.

I'm not 100% sure either. I figured it out as the other way around based mostly on behaviour. The one on the right which you think is male isn't picking the fights or doing anything other than hanging around. The one on the left is the aggressor and doing the chasing but often the loser.

Thing is. Now the one you say is female has been beaten a few times it has been hiding out. It has been acting kind of weird. Like it is flapping, and spinning around. I can't really see it because it goes behind some plant pots in the tank. There could be eggs involved but I'll have to strip things down later.

I've got them in a 55gal with a couple of Sevs and a pair of BN ancistrus. Everyone is small. Like under 4".

Here's what i am refering to when I say eggcrate diffuser...

http://www.globalindustrial.com/gcs/prod/30154504/i/productInfo.web

Huh looks ideal. I imagine here in the UK we call it something like 'British standard diffuse lighting apparatus'. Eggbox

Basically young fish/squabbling/dominance maybe? I can't sex them at this age and judging from some pictures I won't be able to sex them at a later age. I've not seen any fighting for a day now and apart from hiding (comes out to feed) nobody is harassing anyone else so the real question is not sex but if to return one just to be safe. I've got a spare 35gal if I have a real emergency although it may put some stress on my marriage if she catches me filling that tank.

If I take a small mirror to inspect the back of the tank (It is in a alcove) then I can see where 'he' is hiding some gravel has been dug out. No sign of eggs but it is hard with a 2" mirror.

butcherbeast wrote:

Huh looks ideal. I imagine here in the UK we call it something like 'British standard diffuse lighting apparatus'. Eggbox

Now that's a mouthful. Like eggcrate better myself. Ya otta know American English and the King's English don't always share the same name for the same thing, though. Still recall layin' in 8" of snow under a car tryin' to find somethin' to hook a tow cable to, and someone askin' me, "Do ya have a torch?" I was thinkin', "WTF? Does he think I'm gonna MELT all this frickin' snow?"

Seriously, at this point if I had to guess I'd say two males from the pics, but the description of their behavior throws me off. I was lookin' at the pics at lunch, but can't get to 'em now. With GTs color and pattern aren't 100% proof of sex, color can be just as much a function of genetics and dominance. Still a little early to tell, maybe.

WYite

1800g turtle and fish tank sounds pretty sweet.

I just noticed, in the pic with the cable in it, the fish on the right, you can see a tiny little angular point on the bottom by the anal fins.

Not sure with the GTs but when I was trying to sex the other ones here, the smaller angular ones were males, and the females when ready to lay eggs had a much larger vent.

Hey saint I noticed the same 'point' on both fish. Judging from pictures of sexed juveniles and sexed adults I'll never be able to sex these fish without learning to vent them at an appropriate size or catching a break and having one lay eggs or act exclusively male or exclusively female.

I've seen females with nuptial humps. Trailing fins. Males with the same. Females with a bunch of colouration etc. I think I am now of the opinion that all bets are off. I am going to go make a coffee in a while and watch for an hour or so to see how they are behaving. I might return both a GT and a Sev.

Ok. Returned the guy on the left today.

Picked up another 4 large silver dollars, ($20 a fish, owch), 5 tiger barbs and 4 orange shrimp (crystal/tiger hybrids?). The dollars are going in with the oscar. The tigers and shrimp in with the community.

Also a couple of awesome and huge pieces of bogwood. A new light tube and some food. Impulse buys!

Also forgot to get camera or batteries saint but a couple of camera phone pics?

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/3765930986_7934e9c83a.jpg
http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/gallery/files/1/9/2/3765934362_ff7d7516e6.jpg

Do you know what the fish is in the first pic? It's neat.

That second pic looks like the Pig Nose is about to try for a fishy snack. I'm surprised they seem so common over there. I've only ever seen one once around here.

Glad they exchanged the fishies for you with no trouble.

No idea what the fish is. Some kind of cat. Their website is down but they've got a list on there so I'll see if I can access it later and find out for you.

Yeah they've got a bunch of those turtles in there too but I've not really seen them elsewhere. Honestly you'll not see a turtle in a pet shop here. You've really got to go somewhere special.

My female has round fins

If they have cool pics, post the website too. I always find it interesting to see other countries shops and what they have as "common"

Those Fly River turtles are not often available this side of the pond, and when they are extremely expensive. I've seen hatchlings for sale starting at $600.

Unless you count the Snappers that have invaded, I don't think you guys actually have any native turtles. May be why they're so hard to come by.

Ok so back in town now, whew what a move...I havent read through everything yet but to answer your Q I would say at that size it is hard to tell but I would say two males.

Hey saint. They are back up at http://www.wharfaquatics.co.uk

They have a turtle stock list and tropical list at

http://www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/reptilestock.htm
http://www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/tropicalstock.htm