Stupid Smuggler

Do ya think this guy over did it?

WYite

Some people are just plain STUPID!

I don't see anything

Follow the link by clickin' on the words Stupid Smuggler.

WYite

That is stupid.

It's a much harder call on it than that I think. Wyite, what would you do if Wyoming banned the keeping of ALL fish, tropical native or otherwise, but they were still perfectly legal in Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, and Idaho? As far as I know that's the situation with Norway. Norway bans ALL reptiles and amphibians. Every single damn one of them. There's no licenses, no applications or any other sort of exceptions at least for private ownership.

Would I have been upset if it was some endangered species? You betcha. Leopard geckos? Ball Pythons? (They call Balls, Royals across the pond.) These are animals that I've seen for sale for less than 20 bucks in chain pet stores around me. Never mind that they wouldn't survive at all in the wild in Norway except as popcicles.

It's pretty safe to say this guy was going to sell them, but imagine if it was the same guy who got busted with say two ball pythons or two or three geckos and got quoted as saying, "But I just wanted them as pets." How would you all feel then? This guy, in either case is part of a much bigger problem. Just like we've seen in the past month with Asian Aros on Aquabid, Gov bans on animals don't really work when there's people who don't know or don't care about these laws. There needs to be better information available, better regulations in place, and better encouragement for captive breeding programs. That alone would take care of a large portion of the problems with smuggled animals.

I was still reading on it a bit more after I posted this, but there's speculation that Norway is violating Article 6 of the Berne Convention over their laws regarding reptiles to boot.

Crazy stuff.

I see what you're saying SF. I've done my share of smuggling. I've been to Canada and picked up a few cubans and brought them home. <---(Cigars not people ) There is something different about doing it for income though. I see a huge difference from someone taking a few cigars vs. buying several cases and trying to sneak them over and reselling them. I do feel the US ban on Cuban goods is stupid after all these years and all it really does is drive the price up and cause more demand for those that really want them.

saint_felony wrote:

It's a much harder call on it than that I think. Wyite, what would you do if Wyoming banned the keeping of ALL fish, tropical native or otherwise, but they were still perfectly legal in Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, and Idaho? As far as I know that's the situation with Norway. Norway bans ALL reptiles and amphibians. Every single damn one of them. There's no licenses, no applications or any other sort of exceptions at least for private ownership.

Would I have been upset if it was some endangered species? You betcha. Leopard geckos? Ball Pythons? (They call Balls, Royals across the pond.) These are animals that I've seen for sale for less than 20 bucks in chain pet stores around me. Never mind that they wouldn't survive at all in the wild in Norway except as popcicles.

It's pretty safe to say this guy was going to sell them, but imagine if it was the same guy who got busted with say two ball pythons or two or three geckos and got quoted as saying, "But I just wanted them as pets." How would you all feel then? This guy, in either case is part of a much bigger problem. Just like we've seen in the past month with Asian Aros on Aquabid, Gov bans on animals don't really work when there's people who don't know or don't care about these laws. There needs to be better information available, better regulations in place, and better encouragement for captive breeding programs. That alone would take care of a large portion of the problems with smuggled animals.

LOL, ya guys misunderstood what I meant by stupid. I was surprised the guy had to smuggle in those species, myself, and I'm curious why Norway's laws are so strict on reptiles and amphibians with that climate. Can't imagine ball pythons naturalizin' themselves there. I've seen both species, in fact several color morphs of the leopard geckos, at numerous pet stores over the past six months. Not sure what the Berne Convention is, gonna have some homework I see. Ya oughta know by now, from chat, saint, that I'm okay with people ownin' just 'bout anything as long as they can take care of 'em, the species isn't endangered and the owner is responsible enough to ensure the animal isn't released/escapes and then becomes an invasive species.

No, what I was referring to as stupid was having the pythons in socks and not expectin' to get caught with 'em strugglin'. What did it say, somethin' like his body was in constant motion? THAT is the part I was referrin' to as stupid.

As for Wyoming banning all fish, well, I'd have to change my screenname. To Coloradoan. Montanan. Idahoan, maybe. Just not Nebraskan.

No offense to any Nebraskans here, BTW. It's a great state, if ya like flat and corn. Just wouldn't want to live there myself.

WYite

Oh ho! I see what you were getting at now. He chose the wrong day to wear the spandex I suppose. Snakes are usually pretty docile when they get bagged, it must have been very warm where he was. Hell, I think he may have even gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids.. I mean that tarantula.

True that D, the whole Cuban thing is just weird. I've had a friend of mine who used to live in Canada bring some down for me, which according to my one lawyer friend might have actually been legal, since he's Canadian. I agree with you on the whole personal use thing, but so long as there's people willing to buy 'em (whatever it is) people are going to sneak it in.

Yea Wyite, I know you're cool with the whole people can keep what they want so long as they can take care of it thing. Just glad I don't count in the whole keeping endangered animals part of your rule.

Anyway if you want to look it up it's the Berne Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats from 1979. I had to look it up myself since I'm most definitely not up on any euro laws.

From what I'm gathering is that Norway really really doesn't like reptiles and there's been some conservation groups bitching about the: 'take appropriate and necessary legislative and administrative measures to ensure the special protection of the wild fauna species.' part. Because it seems that besides having a hate on for imported herps, Norway hates all their local species as well. It seems like with the "No herps for you" law they're not following the requirement under Appendix III "to prohibit the use of all indiscriminate means of capture and killing and the use of all means capable of causing local disappearance."

Thanks, Rick. I looked up the Berne Convention. Interesting, and interesting how they 're tryin' to get some of the African countries to join to protect migratory species.

I'm not even against people keepin' endangered species, exactly. I don't want to see people takin' animals outta the wild to meet somebody's whim for a pet. And I don't like people keepin' 'em just for the sake of havin' somethin' unique. IME, it seems animals in that position become more status symbols ("Hey, lookie at what I have") rather than critters with needs. There are exceptions to every "rule", LOL, and I've had a coupla pretty uncommon species myself over the years. Though nothin' endangered.

Speaking of endangered. There's another Asian aro on Aquabid, a red with an opening bid of $850.00. That's three in two weeks.

WYite

Yea. Good luck with that. For as many other problems Africa has, I seriously do not see that working out for 'em. They're still using DDT in places to control mosquitoes, am not thinking they care too much about that.

I know what you were getting at as far as endangered species go and agree with you. I was just messin' with you a little since the only endangered guys here are way better off here than they were in the wild. I'm actually waiting to see the official stand on them, as I've heard from my zoo contact that Testudo kleinmanni is now officially extinct in Egypt (they suspected it for a while now) and may be completely extinct in the wild.

On the plus side at least the new Asian Aro auction is claiming it's Canada only.