Hi everyone,

I just bought a used aquarium that came with gravel, decorations, and a filter. The aquarium was only recently emptied, as the person upgraded to a larger tank. He has two very healthy cichlids.

I want to transfer my fish into that one, keeping my filter. But I was thinking of using his gravel. I'll clean the aquarium with a salt/vinegar solution, but was wondering if it would be better to leave the gravel as is considering there could be some good bacteria in there. Also, I've been reading different opinions on whether or not to keep my old tank water or not.

What do you think about this?

Thanks!

Hello, Suzie, welcome to FWM! How big is the new tank vs. your current tank? There's no harm in using your current water up to 50-75% of the volume of the new tank. I'd just leave the remaining volume to be filled with new water, in essence creating a water change during the transfer. The only benefit would be to minimize the possibility of shock due to chemistry differences in the aged water in your tank vs. new water out of the tap. Very little in the way of beneficial bacteria occurs in the water column.

Using the gravel that came with the tank is a matter of personal preference. If the gravel has remained wet, then the bacteria in the gravel will speed up the cycling process. On the other hand, the potential of harmful critters being transferred in is also a real possibility. Even if the gravel dried out, dormant bacteria and proteans (good and bad) are likely present on it, but it won't speed up the cycling process much if used. I know people who have used old gravel that came with a used tank without any problems. I never have, first because of bringin' in harmful critters and second because I've never gotten anything but ugly (IMO) pastel or flourescent gravels, I tend to prefer natural tones.

What kind of filter? As long as it's not an undergravel filter (which uses the gravel as the substrate for nitrifying bacteria) you should be able to make the transfer seamlessly as the biological filtration the filter is used to will remain the same after the transfer. Just ensure the filter doesn't have time to dry out. You may need to upgrade to a larger filter or add a second filter if and when you add more fish. As a good rule of thumb, the flow rate (in gallons per hour - gph) should be a minimum of five times the volume of the tank. For example, a 20 gallon tank should have a filter with a minimum of 100 gph.

WYite

Any updates Suzie?

The transfer is going great! I ended up washing the gravel completely, and cycled the tank from scratch using food and the biological add-in. I've already got two happy fish and an ever growing snail in there. The others should be in soon enough.

I transferred my black moor first, since he was starting to float upside down quite a bit. After eating only half a green pea, he was back to normal. I'm amazed at how quickly that worked! I've now got him on a much more varied diet and he's healthier than ever. He especially loves snail jello. It worries me about how much -- will he eat himself to death??

Black eyed Suzie wrote:

... It worries me about how much -- will he eat himself to death??

Sounds like its going well!

Yes, fish can eat themselves to death, especially with dry foods. Dry foods expand in the gut as they absorb water and can cause bloating and impaction. Limit the portions to no more than the fish can eat completely in 5 minutes until you become a little more experienced. Many fish will recognize when someone walks in the room, I know goldfish, puffers and cichlids do, and will rush to the top of the tank anticipating being fed. This isn't because they are hungry, even though its easy to anthropomorphise and lead ourselves to believe they are begging 'cuz they are hungry. They're not, hold to your guns and feed once or twice a day.

WYite

I've solved the problem by feeding the snail on an island as opposed to in the water. He's happier -- no need to fight for his food. And the fish won't die. Gradually the balance is coming together.

Very nice, sounds like you are well on your way to a happy healthy fish keeping experience. Amazing how something that seem so complicated can come together and be really so easy. All the stress aside you will enjoy what you have created!

It seems so! Although I'm already starting to wonder how long this tank will last me... Seeing the difference a larger tank made on the fish is quite the motivation to go even larger. We'll see...

My biggest lesson learned: don't buy fish without doing research first.

Research is good especially if you don't have a ton of money! It's no shame to have several tanks though and no mater what size tank you have you will always want bigger, trust me my 125 looks tiny but my fish are just huge!!!!

I'm starting to sense that. I haven't even drained my 5g and it's crossed my mind to get a 55 for the fish, keep the 20 for the snails and have the 5 on hand just in case. If I had the space to put them I would have done it already... Probably while my boyfriend was at work... He thinks I may be going too far.

Skip the 55 and get a 75.

Sounds like a plan! ... I wonder how much I can get for my tv? ...

Some pet stores at least in the US do sales for $1 a gallon tanks. I picked up a 90 that way once, so you might not have to sell the tv after all.

Outside of filters and pumps a lot of stuff for fish keeping can be had cheaply from other places too. Most hardware stores carry a few different sizes and mixed colors of gravel (50lbs for about 3 bucks around me) and pvc pipe can be made to look neat if you like a bit more industrialized look.

I've never seen deals like that here! For the tanks, at least. I'm going to check out the hardware stores in my area to see what I can find. I never would have thought of pvc piping. That's an awesome idea! Hiding places are generally crazy expensive.

I've been looking on kijiji and similar sites for filters since I`d really love to put a second one on my tank, but most that i'm finding are older models that have hard-to-find-cartridges. I'll probably just end up buying it new.

Ok, so I went to the store to pick up some nutrifin bio supplement, and came home with an air pump and bubble curtain. And another snail.

The fish are loving the bubbles, but I was wondering if it should be kept on consistently, as is the filter?

Eventually I'll post some pictures. I'm really happy with how it's all coming together. It looks good and super healthy. -- probably not like some of yours, but it's come a long way from the 5g!

Black eyed Suzie wrote:

Ok, so I went to the store to pick up some nutrifin bio supplement, and came home with an air pump and bubble curtain. And another snail.

The fish are loving the bubbles, but I was wondering if it should be kept on consistently, as is the filter?

...

No reason not to leave the bubble curtain on consistently in your tank, extra aereation never hurt fish.

The only time shutting off aereation is really necessary is in high end planted tanks with a carbon dioxide injection system. In that case, aereation is usually shut off during daylight hours while the CO2 injection is on, and at night aereation is turned on and the CO2 injection is shut off. This is because the photosythesis by the plants during the day uses CO2 and light to create carbohydrates, releasing oxygen as a by-product. At night the plants go into the reverse process, respiration, using the carbohydrates created during photosynthesis to carry out metabolic functions, releasing CO2 into the water.

WYite

I only have a couple of plants, and they are most definitely not high end. I was thinking more of whether or not the constant agitation would stress the fish. But i suppose not breathing would be more of a stresser.

I didn't know that about cellular respiration. I was under the assumption that plants gained enough atp from glycolysis, and had no need for the krebs or the etc. Apparently that's mostly single celled organisms.

Looks like somebody has a bit of a background in the biological sciences.

I honestly don't know how much plants rely on respiration. Plants have never been my thang and it's been 20+ years since I've had any cell biology. I only remember the basics, and the only reason I've followed up on it at all was 'cuz I started a coupla planted tanks this time around. Just checked up on it enough to know what I was doing and why I was doing it if I decided to go the high tech route for a planted tank. A friend of mine with a Botany background has a planted tank with CO2 injection and I use him for plant advice. He supported everything I'd read about shutting the CO2 off at night and increasing aereation for that reason. With his background I take it as solid advice. I've got a 55 that I keep bouncing back and forth on: high tech planted tank one day, more cichlids the next day, then high tech plants, then more cichlids, etc. etc. I'd probably have better luck with a greater variety of plants if I set up a high tech tank.

WYite

I'm just starting out my studies, actually. And it really was an only an assumption that plants don't go through the whole shabang -- I mean, how much energy do they need? After further research, I have learned that they need quite a bit, considering they build something from nothing. There are most likely some families with different needs, but otherwise...

Can you keep any fish with your high tech planted tank? Or would the CO2 levels be too high during the day?

I haven't set up a high tech planted tank yet, but generally speaking high tech planted tanks have a minimal number of fish. The planted 55 I've got now is growing cabomba, American val and hornwort like crazy with no CO2 injection and only about 1.5 watts of light per gallon (two 40 watt 6700 k bulbs), with 15 or 20 platies and swordtails in it. Since I'm more of a fish guy and the plants are thriving and providing plenty of cover for the fry, I'm thinkin' about just leavin' it at that.

It is possible to have too high a concentration of CO2. Toxicity occurs when the CO2 concentration in water becomes too high to allow the gills to exchange CO2 from the bloodstream back into the water, i.e. when there is no concentration differential and the CO2 concentration in the water reaches approximate equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the blood. This occurs around 25 mg/liter or so IIRC, and plants do best at 10-15 mg/liter. I know there are test kits available to measure it. I'd think it would take a lot of CO2 injection to get to 25 mg/liter, but I've never played around with it enough to know if it would be easy to overdose or if overdosing CO2 is something you'd have to work at. I doubt you could overdose with a homemade CO2 injection system, though, so I never worried about it too much.

Seriously, I'm not sure what to think with planted tanks and what the best way to go is. I've tried the Walstad method, with some successes and some failures, and I've tried homemade CO2 injection, and saw a difference in some plants and no difference in others. I've seen tanks that had plants growing like crazy and which were way overstocked. The only consistency in my trials has been too little light will slow/stunt growth and even kill plants. My opinion is what is going to work best depends on what type of tank the individual wants. You won't acheive a Dutch-Style Garden Aquarium with exotic plants unless you have CO2 injection, high lighting and few fish, but from my experience you can have nicely planted tanks with a low tech set-up, hardy plants and quite a few fish. The possibilities are only limited by what the individual wants to achieve.

WYite

My 20g is already starting to look small, so I'll keep the fish as my priority for the moment. This is good info to have for when I get a bigger tank...