i think my fav fish place is on the verge of going under. the guy who owns th eplace has been in buisness for thirty years. the shop has kinda been going downhill slowly for a while though. He rarely gets fish in, and when they do its just a few. the tanks always look the same, and the inventory never changes. he is a very knowledgable man, and has helped me lots and lots through out the last 20 years. Im hoping that it doesnt just go away, but im afraid thats what its heading too.

Sorry to hear that. With all the deals on the internet and big chain pet stores nowadays...this is happening to more and more Mop and Pop type places.

Unfortunate, it sucks. We don't have any LFS left to here.

WYite

I know that really sucks. The new fish store I was ranting about near me last year has also done the same....his store was short lived although he still is very successful with his baby (reef/salt store) the freshwater store did not do that well. Last time I went in to get food most all tanks were down or had very few fish. I sat and talked to him for a while and come to find out there was just not enough demand, I am sure cause of the internet deals and the chain stores. Sucks really bad...too bad there is not a whole lot more we can do.

My fav lfs closed a couple years ago due to a couple reasons but sure do miss the custom food he carried well so do my fish!!! We have a new store that if your a SW person or need supplies he's got that covered. And yes still whining about going in and getting my "wow" factor button pushed oh well that happens can't complain

With the ridiculous cost of shipping from online orders and the cold I can't see why a decent lfs would do that badly. I'm in sort of a weird spot though, I don't consider That Fish Place to be a chain since they're only one store, but they're the 500lb gorilla of a mom and pop store.

saint_felony wrote:

With the ridiculous cost of shipping from online orders and the cold I can't see why a decent lfs would do that badly. I'm in sort of a weird spot though, I don't consider That Fish Place to be a chain since they're only one store, but they're the 500lb gorilla of a mom and pop store.

The problem here is customer base. Low population and proportionately fewer hobbyists. Higher shipping costs for the retailer. End result is prices get raised in an attempt by the owner to make a living. They keep fewer fish, less equipment, and a smaller variety of each. Economy of scale allows large stores in heavily populated areas to buy more fish and supplies, a larger variety, and ship cheaper than a local dealer can sell, especially when an on-line store offers discounts on shipping based on purchase size. Remember, the entire state of Wyoming is 1/3 the population of Philadelphia proper (let alone the outlying areas that compose the metropolitan area), over an area more than twice the size of Pennsylvania. Throw in the chain stores like Petco and Petsmart, and even department stores like Walmart, who can offer the same or similar products for cheaper prices due to the "buy in bulk, sell cheap" strategy, and a LFS here is gonna hafta be A+++ to be successful. I've looked at startin' a shop here several times. The majority of profit isn't in livestock, it's in the supplies. There just isn't enough of a demand for new equipment in a population base this small. I'm sure there are plenty of areas in sparsely populated parts of the country that can't support a mom and pop pet store, even if that pet store deals in more than just fish.

WYite

I know you've mentioned it before, but I don't think the numbers sunk in the first time of just how sparsely populated Wyoming is. I had it in my mind that there was a few decently large sized cities scattered about all the open space.

It totally makes sense now that there wouldn't be the ability to support even a single LFS (or even a single all purpose pet store that also sold fish) in the wake of a Petco or Petsmart.

I've only ever seen one Walmart that sold live fish, is that fairly common for out your way? Of the 5 Walmarts (Yes, we have 5) in about a half an hour drive to me, only one has fish, and that particular Walmart is an old as dirt, not 24/7, no food store sort of Walmart.

The only Wally World I go into is the one here, lol. If I drive 50 or 100 miles to shop it sure as hell ain't gonna be at Walmart! Seriously, I do know the Walmart in Laramie carries fish.

Cheyenne has 'bout 60,000 people, with 92,000 total in the county. Casper has around 55k, with 75k in that county. That's a third of the state's population.

There are another 4 or 5 counties that have a population between 30k-50k, and some of these counties are large area-wise and the population is spread way out. IIRC, there are three towns in the 30k range (Sheridan, Laramie, and Gillette, where LC lives) spread through these counties. That accounts for another third of the state's population.

The other third of the population is even more spread out in the remaining 17 counties. The largest towns in any of the remaining counties are less than 20,000 people, mainly WAY less than that. Wyoming is as 'bout as rural as ya get in this day and age.

All kiddin' aside, I know people who drive 100-200 miles once a month to a Walmart or Kmart to stock up on non-perishable foods and items like paper towels, toilet paper, soap and shampoo. This little gal Carmen goes to school with grew up in a little town on the west side of the state. We kinda "adopted" her last year when Carmen started school, since her mom is so far away, this girl knew absolutely no one here, and she was overwhelmed by the size of Cheyenne. She's 20, and until she moved here she had seen a McDonald's ONCE and had never eaten at one. The closest Walmart was in Evanston, WY. And to hear Kaitlin tell it, the one in Evanston sucks so it was easier to drive another 80 miles to Salt Lake City, Utah.

BTW, you have 5 Walmarts within a half hour drive? Outta curiousity, I googled it. There are only 11 in the entire state of Wyoming, LOL.

LOL, I know we've chatted 'bout it, but one of these days I'm gonna get ya to really comprehend just how sparsely populated and spread out Wyoming is compared to back east. 'spose you'll just have to see fer yerself someday...

Ivan

I didn't realize until I went and looked it up, but within a 25 mile radius I actually have 15 Walmarts. I'm not sure if I could make the drive to all of them in a half an hour, and some of them I'd only go to if I were wearing a flak jacket but still.

I must have been tired, or misread back when we were talking about it before. I had Cheyenne in my mind around 600k, not 60k. I was looking at the Walmart data by state from here http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/StateByState/State.aspx?st=WY and it really does a heck of a job to drive it home just how rural you all have it out there.

You send that girl you adopted out here and I think her brain would pop. Hell, the same thing might happen to me if I were to come out there for more than a week or two.

saint_felony wrote:

I didn't realize until I went and looked it up, but within a 25 mile radius I actually have 15 Walmarts. I'm not sure if I could make the drive to all of them in a half an hour, and some of them I'd only go to if I were wearing a flak jacket but still.

There'd probly be one or two ya'd wanna wear a flak jacket to here as well, Rick, for different reasons. Maybe a chastity belt as well. Certain parts of the state the natives may think ya have a purdy face... JK. Seriously, though, people can be pretty clannish in parts of the state.

saint_felony wrote:

You send that girl you adopted out here and I think her brain would pop. Hell, the same thing might happen to me if I were to come out there for more than a week or two.

She's gotten better, but yer probly right. She will drive to Denver now, which she wouldn't do the first six months she lived here.

I don't know which would be harder to get used to, myself. Whenever I've been back east, I can't describe how closed in I feel. Claustrophobic is as 'bout as close as I can get to describin' it, I guess.

Ivan

I know Walmart isn't the best place to get fish, but if you find the person in charge of the fish/pet dept ask them to see what they have available on the "order list" and if they're a cool person they'll order stuff for you. Then just pick them up when the come in so they never hit their tanks.

Petco & Petsmart will also do this for you

I suggest that simply for the fact you don't have to pay shipping, even special ordering you get the listed price.

Unfortunately, the fish department manager at Wally World is not very willing to participate in interacting with customers, to put it nicely. The fish manager ia a bit more accomodating, but they never have anything I'm lookin' for on their lists.

Alas, I'm doomed to travel the world in an endless quest seeking cichlids to satisfy my obsession!

WYite

The internet isn't just for porn you know.

saint_felony wrote:

The internet isn't just for porn you know.

The entire state of Wyoming is considered "rural", remember? What was it, uhhm, like 95 freakin' dollars to ship one measly turtle and a handful of 1" abominations?

Indeed it was. I admit to being slightly overzealous with water and packing materials though too. That turtle was special, and not just in the mildly retarded way.

TFP is usually $35 flat for livestock shipping but they sometimes run specials for over a certain dollar amount it's free. I'm sure there's got to be other places that shipping isn't so painful too.

well its official now. I went in friday and the owner told me he was starting monday on the official going out of buisness sale. He is so down, its awefull. I dont know whats going to happen to all the livestock he has in the store, or any or the very large oscars. Theres a talapia, a monster sleeper goby, at least 8 foot long plecos. theres a syno cat that he bought lweh it was under an inch that noone ever bought and that was probably 6 years ago. He has had the store for twenty five years, in his own words, long enought that I dont know anythigng else. I know that this sort of thing is going on every day all over the country, but it really makes me sad. I started buying from himwhen i was just 7 or 8, twenty years ago.

Where are ya gonna put an 8 foot long pleco? How many did he have?

That really sucks. Between the big box stores and the internet, I'm afraid that small, locally owned fish stores may soon be a thing of the past.

WYite

Yes it's too bad. I always bought most of my fish and supplies from a local guy but it is tough for them to compete with online prices from someone with almost no overhead. Sorry to hear this!

Hey Wyite...I was thinking the same thing about an 8ft pleco the first time I read it...lol

so now that its all over heres another update. I did what i ciyld to help him get moved out of the building. I ended up with a few monster fish. I had to set up another 125 just to keep these things in. There is a pairof clown knives, the smaller one is 12 inches. an adult gold severum, 8 featherfin syno cats, ranging in size from sub adult to adult, a mangy old ocsar, and a 13 inch marble goby. On top of that one of my coworkers gave me a adult venny pike cichlid to add th the mix. Theres also a 6 inch electric cat, its in a 55 all alone. anyone want one? I did get a 125 stand at cost, and axelrods latest fish bible too.