hey all. im thinkin of starting a planted tank. i have a 20 or a 29 tall either one will work. hang on back filter heater regular flouresent light. the tall tank has a mirror background on it the 20 has no background. i have gravel or i have some sand i can use. ok so heres where i need help. what now? i had the 20 with a shitton of guppies in it and then one day all the plants i had turned brown and died. im sure it was cuz i had no idea what i was doing. anyhow im lookin to startoff low maintenance and fairly cheap if at all possible. i have the 135 mbuna tank and the 55 peacock to deal with also so low maintenance is kinda important. ANY and ALL suggestions are greatly appreciated. please i have no real experience with underwater plants. i keep a mean garden but underwater is all new to me so feel free to talk to me like im a dummy cu well right now i am at this thing. i eventually want to keep fish in it well right away. anyhow let me know what you think

it is better to use the regular 20 than the tall. It allows for better light penetration. Also what kind of lamp are you using? Is it just the stock hood lighting? If so, that might work short term, but if you really want to keep plants 15W is less than half of what they need to thrive in your 20g. You want to follow a rule of 2-4 Watts per gallon. If you can get close to 4 you can keep almost anything you want. I have a 20g H and I have 65W. It is a high though so I figure it is fairly close to the 3w range. Also, you are looking for a full spectrum lighting range between 5500K-7500K. Fish are a good idea, because they produce natural fertilizer, just be sure it is cycled first. Its easier that way when you are dealing with plants. Also, when picking your plants make sure they are true aquatics. A lot of the stores sell plants as aquatic that really are not true aquatics. A good rule of thumb for a beginner, with the exception of sword plants, if it is out of the water and can stand on its own it probably isn't a true aquatic. Also, my understanding is that fine gravel is better than sand for most plants. Apparently it is harder for them to extend their roots in packed sand.

Also if you have 3+ wpg you will want to use Co2. For your substrate you can use a fertilized sand like seachems Flourite sand and then top it with gravel. If you use fertilized sand you wont need to use liquid fertilizers as much as you would with out the sand.

Once you know how many watts per gallon you want to use then we can suggest plants.

ya i really want to avoid using co2. that just sounds like alot of work and well i work all the time in the summer.plus i dont like the idea of that shit in my house. i dunno ive seen those injectors and what not and they look evil.

In a tank that small you could use flourish excel for carbon in lieu of CO2.

With that size of a tank you do not need the big Co2 injection thing you can use a soda bottle, air line hose and a Co2 ladder. Fill the bottle with sugar, yeast, baking soda and water and let the yeast do its thing. I have something like that kicking around my place I'll snap a pic if you would like.

ya i remeber reading/seeing the soda bottle thing. cant remeber how it goes tho.

About a month.

after 20+ years i just cant get my plant tank,at firs they grow nice an well,next thing i know they are dieing,i dont want to spend to much money,just want something to work,do i have to have oxygen tank to make it work?

CichlidsRool wrote:

after 20+ years i just cant get my plant tank,at firs they grow nice an well,next thing i know they are dieing,i dont want to spend to much money,just want something to work,do i have to have oxygen tank to make it work?

What kind of lighting do you have? How big is the tank? IMO you don't need oxygen for a planted tank. I'm not an expert by far but I will help all I can.

On the diy co2, this is the method I use.
http://www.gpodio.com/diy_co2.asp

kygrl wrote:

CichlidsRool wrote:

after 20+ years i just cant get my plant tank,at firs they grow nice an well,next thing i know they are dieing,i dont want to spend to much money,just want something to work,do i have to have oxygen tank to make it work?

What kind of lighting do you have? How big is the tank? IMO you don't need oxygen for a planted tank. I'm not an expert by far but I will help all I can.

On the diy co2, this is the method I use.
http://www.gpodio.com/diy_co2.asp

at the time i was using 100gl. i have about 12 tanks that are full of cichlids, but i am getting more room for me to set me up a plant tank,i am thing 120gl. or 150gl.as far as lighting i used just normal lighting that i use for my African Cichids

That's your problem. Plants need daylight bulbs to grow. Regular lights won't work.
For a 120 you can get cheap shop lights at a hardware store. Look for bulbs with 6500k or 10,000k. I'm using 8 T12's on my 135 gallon. It's flurishing!! I think I have about $80 in my lights. I use the 2wpg rule.
This is one of the articles I remember reading that helped me understand a little more about planted aquariums.
http://www.aquariaplants.com/

And when I get ready to upgrade my lighting this will be where I buy them from.
http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm

kygrl wrote:

That's your problem. Plants need daylight bulbs to grow. Regular lights won't work.
For a 120 you can get cheap shop lights at a hardware store. Look for bulbs with 6500k or 10,000k. I'm using 8 T12's on my 135 gallon. It's flurishing!! I think I have about $80 in my lights. I use the 2wpg rule.
This is one of the articles I remember reading that helped me understand a little more about planted aquariums.
http://www.aquariaplants.com/

And when I get ready to upgrade my lighting this will be where I buy them from.
http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm

"That is your problem"lol!!! i like the way you put @ss in place,,,,," i like to thank you for helping me out... i will do that,,,

Oh no!!! I promise, I didn't mean that like it sounded!!!! I apologize.

I have decided to use the flourish excel since it is only a 20g. I just ordered my ferts yesterday. I would love to go with the dry and mix myself, but I just don't have time for a self chemistry lesson until later this summer. What does everyone think of the flourish products?

k thaks tina u seem to be the go to guy mean gal on plants.im still in the dreaming stage but ill remeber these posts.

I love all seachem products! I use flourite sand and Flourish in my 72 gallon. My plants and algae love it!

Ivy wrote:

I have decided to use the flourish excel since it is only a 20g. I just ordered my ferts yesterday. I would love to go with the dry and mix myself, but I just don't have time for a self chemistry lesson until later this summer. What does everyone think of the flourish products?

I use Flourish and Flourish excel. I really like them.


If you do decide to go with dry ferts please give this a look. This guy seems to really knows his stuff. I've heard a lot of great things about him. He has dry ferts that everyone says are reasonably priced and works great.

http://rexgrigg.com/

Mike D wrote:

I love all seachem products! I use flourite sand and Flourish in my 72 gallon. My plants and algae love it!

thanks guys very cool of you to helping me out,ask me anything about African Cichlid's,but i dont know jack about plants,so please let me know about what i should do or not to....

Good rule of thumb Plants + Cichlids= Shredded plants.

Have you chosen the size of tank you will be using?

When you figure that out next you will need lights. Take kygrls advice and get some shop lights and bulbs with no less than a 6,500 kelvin temp. Follow the watt per gallon rule. So if you are using the 120 gallon tank you will need no less than 240 watts per gallon because anything under 2 watts per gallon (WPG) will have no effect on your plants.

Once you have figured out how many WPG you are going to use will determine on what plants you can keep. Heres a link where you can find plants by lighting requirement.

Dry ferts. Im going to quote debaric from AC on this matter. He sent this in a PM to me 2 weeks ago. I wanted to try some dry ferts and asked him for some help after I bought them.

"Now here is some info that you may not be happy about.. Your dry ferts are going to be overkill unless your tank has a good source of co2 and at least moderate light. Are you injecting co2 somehow either using a pressureized co2 tank or a DIY setup? Also do you have high lighting over the tank?

Before I can tell you more you have to answer these questions. DO NOT add dry ferts until you have the balance of moderate to high light and a good source of co2 injection. Its all about balance, if you have high light then you NEED co2 and ferts.
*** If you have low light then you dont need either of those but then you cant have a lot of different types of plants and the low light ones wont grow fast at all. *****".

If you are going to use dry ferts you will need a good balance of moderate to high light and a good source of co2 injection.

Mike D wrote:

Good rule of thumb Plants + Cichlids= Shredded plants.

Have you chosen the size of tank you will be using?

When you figure that out next you will need lights. Take kygrls advice and get some shop lights and bulbs with no less than a 6,500 kelvin temp. Follow the watt per gallon rule. So if you are using the 120 gallon tank you will need no less than 240 watts per gallon because anything under 2 watts per gallon (WPG) will have no effect on your plants.

Once you have figured out how many WPG you are going to use will determine on what plants you can keep. Heres a link where you can find plants by lighting requirement.

Dry ferts. Im going to quote debaric from AC on this matter. He sent this in a PM to me 2 weeks ago. I wanted to try some dry ferts and asked him for some help after I bought them.

"Now here is some info that you may not be happy about.. Your dry ferts are going to be overkill unless your tank has a good source of co2 and at least moderate light. Are you injecting co2 somehow either using a pressureized co2 tank or a DIY setup? Also do you have high lighting over the tank?

Before I can tell you more you have to answer these questions. DO NOT add dry ferts until you have the balance of moderate to high light and a good source of co2 injection. Its all about balance, if you have high light then you NEED co2 and ferts.
*** If you have low light then you dont need either of those but then you cant have a lot of different types of plants and the low light ones wont grow fast at all. *****".

If you are going to use dry ferts you will need a good balance of moderate to high light and a good source of co2 injection.

i am going to use my 200gl. for now i have fulu's in that tank,i really like thank you guys for your help.i going to use co2. here is the link foe co2 tank,i was going to sell it but i changed my mind, if you try to buy one its about 380$...next question is,how do you inject oc2 i the water,i am sure if you leave the oc2 tank on it will run-out,wouldn't it?


http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Cars-vehicles-Parts-accessories-H2-Oxygen-Helium-copmpressed-Tank-W0QQAdIdZ119731061

Links Co2 system

Co2 system auto

You need a Co2 system like the one's I linked above. This will regulate the amount of Co2 that is used. Since you are going to use Co2 make sure you get a timer or remember to turn the Co2 off at night when the lights go out. Plants durring the day take in food and expel o2 as waste. At night when the lights go out they expel Co2 so if you leave the Co2 on at night you will be over injecting the water causing high levels of Co2 that will end up killing your plants.

Mike D wrote:

Links Co2 system

Co2 system auto

You need a Co2 system like the one's I linked above. This will regulate the amount of Co2 that is used. Since you are going to use Co2 make sure you get a timer or remember to turn the Co2 off at night when the lights go out. Plants durring the day take in food and expel o2 as waste. At night when the lights go out they expel Co2 so if you leave the Co2 on at night you will be over injecting the water causing high levels of Co2 that will end up killing your plants.

bro!!! i dont know what to say!! your the bomb you taught me just about everything i need to know....

i like to thank kygrl for her help also....

Anytime. kygrl is a wealth of info as well!