While the bioload of swordtails would be fine in 10 x 20 size, their behaivor makes them not really contained very well in that size. A male swordtail's courtship display can cover close to a yard very quickly if given the space, and a female's attempts to avoid the male in such a small space eventually ends up in one or the other being a carpet surfer.

Bioload fine, activity level not ok for that size tank.

My common sense agrees with you as well, especially considering their sizes but this is what I've got from another board. My original minimum size was significantly larger than 10g.

"One immediate example of a species whose "minimums" aren't quite correct is the swordtails. Granted, the consensus on the net is actually wrong about this as well, based on a misquoted early "rule" that you wanted to keep swordtails in groups of at least TEN (a rule that has since been roundly debunked, though the capacity needed for 10 swords lives on!). But I'll go ahead and cite Kathleen Wood, a successul keeper and author, who has demonstrated success in care, long-term housing, community inclusion, and breeding of swordtails in standard-dimension aquariums HALF the size your site lists as the "minimum" for a breeding trio. She has even recommended them to newbies as a good use of 10-gallon aquariums, and I haven't heard about any complaints that it was creating failure. Some sites (fishlore.com) do reflect this as a "more correct" minimum. One reason that the minimum size of an aquarium for a Swordtail is often greatly overstated is the effect that their tail has on the overall length of the fish. Up to half of a Swordtail is tail! I know Kathleen's been successful with them in 10 gallons for a great deal of time. I've experienced a lot of success with them in a 15-gallon standard, and I just recently became aware that even Sea World regularly keeps them in a 15 gallon (why Sea World is keeping swordtails, I don't know, but I digress)!"

I can give you the URL of this thread and let you challenge this guy, if you like.

As a goldfish keeper I can not disagree with either Achaicus or yhbae. I can open this to debate. IMHO swords can thrive in a in an aquarium as small as 15 gallon. Can it be done long term I think so. I'm not the person to answer this question not a chance.
But what do you want to know about a Goldfish

Rick

So how about goldfish... In your opinion, is AqAdvisor reporting a reasonable stocking % along with right water change volume/schedule?

I did collect some feedback from some goldfish keepers in the past, so I hope its in line with your expectation.

yhbae
My standard care sheet

Do not overstock

The first basic rule to healthy fish is NOT to overstock. Use at least 10 gallons of water per goldfish, more for commons and comets.
Plan for the Future

He may look like a tiny thing but goldfish live long lives and grow continuously. You need to cover the tank as goldfish may jump.
If you take care of the water, the water will take care of the fish

* Treat your tap water with a high quality tap water conditioner that will neutralize chlorine/chloramines and detoxify heavy metals from your tap water.
* Measure it for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH to make sure the water is stable and non toxic.
* Filter it. The filter on your goldie tank should pass the tank’s entire water volume through the filter at least ten times per hour. Your filter traps trap debris and particles in your tank and also serves as a home for the bacteria that keep the water happy by converting ammonia (toxic) into nitrIte (still toxic) into nitrAte (less toxic). It will take several weeks to establish your biological filter .
* Perform partial water changes weekly or biweekly (20-40%) to take care of the waste not dealt with in the biological cycle and to replenish the minerals and other good stuff the goldfish have used up.
* Clean the filter by rinsing filter media (the fuzzy stuff) in some tank water twice a month.
* Clean the gravel. Vacuum parts every time you do a partial water change. .

Goldfish are living beings and need oxygen

* Provide large surface area. Goldfish fare better in tanks that are long, rather than tall. Longer tanks provide a larger surface area for optimal gas exchange.
* Make sure there is surface movement.
* Do not overstock. More fish means less oxygen per fish.
* Perform partial water changes and tank cleaning weekly. Your tank maintenance assist oxygen production because as you remove dying plant, debris and uneaten food you reduce the number of oxygen consuming bacteria.
* Watch for gasping.

Goldfish have preferences

* Keep a stable temperature around 76F
* pH should be over 7 (preferably over 7.4). However if your KH (which measures your alkalinity) is low (under 80 PPM) you may see pH swings and if you experience pH drops between waterchanges you should look into increasing your alkalinity (KH) so your pH stays stable. Crushed coral or crushed oystershell added to a high flow area can also be used to increase KH and keep pH stable.
* Some hardness (GH) makes for happier fish
* Lights. Goldfish need to see to find food and have fun. Unless your room is bright add artificial fluorescent light. But remember that goldfish do like dark periods as well.

Goldfish are creatures of habit. Keep things stable

* Don't tinker too much. Goldfish adapt to a wide range of pH and hardness. What they really need is for you to keep it stable so they do not have to adjust too often.
* Use a heater to keep the temperature stable. Goldfish can adjust to a wide range. But around 76 Fahrenheit is a good temp for most fancy varieties.
* Use a thermometer to measure temperature. And make sure the temperature of the change water is the same as the temperature of the tank water.

Ammonia: should be 0ppm.

Symptoms include: irritation, flashing, black areas, frayed fins, darting back and forth in the tank in uncontrollable spasms, spinning in small circles, and finally laying on the bottom.

How toxic ammonia is in your tank depends on your water temperature and pH. Higher water temperature and higher pH make ammonia more toxic. If you pH is 8 you're going to have to work harder at keeping ammonia levels low than if your pH is 7.

Treatment:

* Reduce feeding. High protein foods result in more ammonia. Feed low protein foods like fresh veggies until your biofilter bacteria catch up.
* Vacuum the substrate well. The bacteria that consume debris produce ammonia, so reducing the debris in the tank should reduce ammonia production.
* If your tap water has little or no ammonia after it's dechlorinated, partial water changes will help to bring ammonia down to safe levels. Either Prime or Amquel can also be used to convert ammonia to its less toxic form, however, you must have a 2 bottle ammonia test kit or you will not get accurate water test readings. The Seachem Ammonia Alert card will still give accurate ammonia readings when using Prime or Amquel. Note that if your water isn't well buffered (low KH), Amquel will lower your pH (Make it too acidic), so you will most likely have to buffer with baking soda to keep that from happening.
* Ammonia adsorbing resins such as zeolite can also be used, however, they are just a temporary bandaid.


NitrIte: should be 0ppm

NitrIte is toxic. It enters thru the gills and binds up the red blood cells keeping them from being able to carry oxygen. Salt helps protect against nitrIte poisoning because the chlorine in it competes with nitrIte for uptake through the gills. You should not see detectable levels of nitrIte in an established tank. If you are detecting nitrIte in an established tank, you need to reexamine your filtration, fish load and husbandry practices.

Symptoms include: Oxygen seeking behavior. e.g. rapid gill movements, staying near the top of the top, gulping air, etc, lethargy, gills are brown instead of bright cherry red.

Treatment:

* Reduce feeding. High protein foods result in more ammonia and thus more nitrIte. Feed low protein foods like fresh veggies sparingly until your biofilter bacteria catch up.
* Vacuum the substrate well. The bacteria that consume debris produce ammonia, so reducing the debris in the tank should reduce ammonia and thus nitrIte production.
* Partial water changes will help to bring nitrIte down to safe levels. Add salt at one (1) teaspoon per gallon of water. Predissolve in tank water and make sure it disperses well when you add it. You can use table salt as long as it doesn't contain yellow prussiate of soda. Rock salt and picking are cheap and work well. Until nitrIte drops to 0ppm, when you do partial water changes just add one tsp of salt per gallon changed untill nitrItes come down to 0, then you can skip adding any more salt. Your partial water changes will then remove it over time.


Nitrate: 0-40ppm (optimal)

Symptoms: can cause flip over problems, dilated blood vessles in fins, decreased immune response.

Treatment: partial water changes will help to bring nitrAte down to safe levels. Adding fast growing plants may also help keep nitrAte from building up.


pH/KH: 7.5-8.3 (Optimal range)/ 120-300ppm

If your pH is lower, it will have a tendency to slip down over time. If pH gets down to 6, it can be deadly for your fish and for the bacteria that keep your water happy. The pH of blood is around 7.4 and there are only a layer of two of cells between the fish's blood and the water. Rapid swings in pH or extreme pH can cause the blood to get too alkaline or too acidic.

Treatment:

* Partial water changes will help to maintain pH if your water is well buffered (KH around 120ppm).

* Crushed oyster shells, broken up cuttlebone or crushed coral placed inside a media container of mesh bag in a high water flow area will also help maintain pH. They dissolve when pH falls below 7.5 and increase KH (bicarbonates--which help to maintain pH) and GH (your general hardness).


General Hardness (GH): 100+ppm (optimal)

These are the dissolved minerals in your water, primarily calcium and magnesium. Goldfish can tolerate a wide range of hardness levels, and generally your source water should be fine unless it's really really soft (low GH). GH helps to keep your pH from getting too high and aids in the fish being able to maintain proper fluid balance.

Goldfish tanks should be about goldfish

* Decorations. Keep them to a minimum. Goldfish need room to swim. They can get stuck between or under decorations. Avoid sharp decorations that they could get hurt on.
* Substrate. Gravel can provide a home for the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrAte, however it also provides a breeding ground for bacteria that eat debris and can cause disease. Gravel can also be a hazard if goldfish swallow it or get it stuck in their throats. Either use a shallow layer of gravel small enough to pass through a goldfish, or use a single layer of larger rocks too large to fit in their mouths. You can also have a bare-bottomed tank.
* Tankmates. It is easier to succeed with a goldfish only tank. Tropicals have different requirements and are often sensitive to goldfish medications (like salt). Common Plecos and apple snails do not make good mates as they may suck on goldfish slimecoat and harm or injure them. Smaller hardy snails like trapdoors or small ramshorns would work fine though.
* Plants. Plants can be used with goldfish but not always with success. Goldfish like to think of plants as their own salad bar and you may have to try a few before having success. Good ones to start with are java fern, anacharis, java moss, sword plants, dwarf anubias and Crypts. For more information, see our article on Goldfish and Plants.

Goldfish are omnivours and need good varied food to be healthy and happy

* Feed goldfish once or twice a day (more often if they are babies and juveniles)
* Feed a varied diet
* Do not overfeed.
* If you feed dry food (pellets or flakes) make sure they are good quality ones and not too old
* Feed a varied diet of shrimp; krill and some live foods such as daphnia and worms. See our Goldfish Diner for more ideas for healthy goldfish foods.
* Omnivours like their vegetables. Feed washed greens, spirula, peas, oranges and more.
* Some goldfish are sensitive to dry food - particularly dry flakes. You may have to presoak your dry food or if see problems (like flipover) eliminate it from the diet


Plan for the unexpected

* Quarantine new fish (three to four weeks) to prevent illness spreading
* Have a Hospital Tank ready (or something that will work as a make-up tank) just in case.

Be the best veterinarian you can

* If fish get sick or out of sort try make a specific diagnosis rather than poison fish with too many medicines.
* Always check your water first
* Isolate sick specimens


Thus plenty of water, generous space, regular water maintenance and good healthy food and your goldie should enjoy a long happy life with you

Last but not least: Enjoy your fish!

That's a lot of info.

Thanks.

Interesting on the swordtail thing. I just stated that based on my own experience with a trio in a 10 gallon. One female chased the other constantly and eventually the chased one jumped... then the male hounded the other until it jumped.

We had a cover on the tank but there was a small hole where the filter was situated and they somehow escaped out that space. Their constant bickering and fighting even if had been able to keep them in the tank made the setup with them stressful for me to deal with.

I always found all of the Xiphophorus did better in larger groups seem to cut down on the constant chasing and bickering but it has been a very long time since I kept anything be sides Goldies

Rick

Hmm, this is going to be interesting. To be honest, I had 1M2F combo of platies before and the male ended up eventually stressing the females to near death as well even though this is typically what's being recommended. One one side, someone with tens of years of experience on this species says its fine yet another person had a problem.

I guess fishes really are individually different - some more extreme than others.

What's new for 2010 05 02 build:

- Added Pearl Danio (Danio albolineatus).
- Added Golden Dwarf Cichlid/Goldeneye Cichlid (Nannacara anomala).
- Added Purple Spotted Gudgeon (Morgurnda adspersa).
- Added Empire Gudgeon (Hypseleotris compressa).
- Added Australian Smelt (Retropinna semoni).
- Added Red Fin Caudopunk (Neolamprologus Caudopunctatus).
- Added Neon Blue Cichlid (Paracyprichromis nigripinnis).
- Added Hunch Backed Limia (Limia nigrofasciata).

- Updated the size of Puntius sachsii to 3.0 inches.
- Minimum tank size for Kribensis has been updated to 24x12.
- Different species of Gouramies have been marked as incompatible to each other.
- Mouth size of Frontosa has been increased capable of eating 4.5 inch species when fully grown up.
- Size of female swordtale has been adjusted back to 4 inches (same as the male).

- Added 30g Oceanic Cube tank dimension.

- Total number of tanks in DB has been increased to 84.
- Total number of species in DB has been increased to 878.

To access the application, please click on AqAdvisor site.

If you have any freshwater species that are missing in AqAdvisor DB, please let me know!!! If you disagree with any of the results produced by AqAdvisor, please let me know that too.

If you want to check out the details of the most recent saltwater release (build 2010 04 30), please check out the following thread.

What's new for 2010 05 09 build:

- This release is really a special edition for Betta (Splenden)! They are a common species for fish keepers but with peculiar compatibility requirement so I want to make sure compatibility is accurately addressed. Basically it is an attempt to address compatibility of betta vs everything else (well, at least a shot at it, I'm sure it will need further adjustments). Please see the long message at the bottom of this post for the details and let me know if any of it sounds inaccurate! Apology in advance for the length of this post.
- Added Bearded/Checkerboard/Filigree Cory (Scleromystax barbatus).
- Added Lacerda Cory C015 (Scleromystax lacerdai C015).
- Added a note to male Betta that they can become stressful under presence of too many shoaling species around it in a small tank.
- Added Hi Fin Peppered Cory (Scleromystax macropterus).
- Added Scleromystax prionotos.
- Size of Dwarf Petricola has been adjusted down to 3.5 inches.
- Congo Tetra has been marked as a fin nipper.
- Tiger Loach has been marked as a fin nipper.
- Aggression for Yoyo Loach has been increased.
- Dwarf Loach has been marked as a fin nipper.
- Yoyo Loach has been marked as fin nipper.
- Bioload factors for larger cories have been increased slightly.

- Total number of species in DB has been increased to 879.

To access the application, please click on AqAdvisor site.

If you have any freshwater species that are missing in AqAdvisor DB, please let me know!!! If you disagree with any of the results produced by AqAdvisor, please let me know that too.

If you want to check out the details of the most recent saltwater release (build 2010 05 07), please check out the following thread.

-----
"A note on betta compatibility. For the male betta (splenden only), I went through a great deal of trouble to identify compatible species in greater depth.
At a higher level, I have created the following groups:
- ""Corydoras""
- ""Large Snail""
- ""Small Peaceful Loach""
- ""Small Peaceful Shoaling""
(I may need to create more groups in the future)
I've marked Betta male as being incompatible (will recommend user to do further research) with EVERYTHING except these groups. ""Corydoras"" group is self explaning - it contains those species. ""Large Snail"" group contains all snails that are larger than 0.5 inches. Ramshorn is considered small and there are reports that Betta consumes them. ""Small Peaceful Loach"" group contains currently only one family of species - Kuhli Loach family. ""Small Peaceful Shoaling"" group currently contains the following species listed below. They are basically anything that shoals in the mid/upper level, peaceful, under 3 inches, and not fin nippers. If anything here shouldn't belong in this group, PLEASE LET ME KNOW (especially the fin nippers)."

Species listed under "Small Peaceful Shoaling" group:

- Allens Rainbowfish
- Australian Smelt
- Axelrods Rainbowfish
- Black Neon Tetra
- Blackline Rasbora
- Bleeding Heart Tetra
- Blind Cave Tetra
- Bloodfin Tetra
- Blue Back Blue Eye
- Blue Emperor Tetra
- Cairns Rainbowfish
- Cardinal Tetra
- Celebes Halfbeak
- Celebes Rainbowfish
- Celestial Pearl Danio
- Checkered Barb
- Cherry Barb
- Cherry Spot Rasbora
- Clown Killifish
- Danio erythromicron
- Delicate Blue Eye
- Diamond Tetra
- Dwarf Pencilfish
- Dwarf Rainbowfish
- Dwarf Rasbora
- Ember Tetra
- Emerald Eye Rasbora
- Emperor Tetra
- Espei Rasbora
- Five Banded Barb
- Flag Tetra
- Flame Tetra
- Fly River Rainbowfish
- Flyspeck Hardyhead
- Forktail Rainbowfish
- Furcata Rainbowfish
- Galaxy Rasbora
- Gardneri Killifish
- Garnet Tetra
- Glass Bloodfin Tetra
- Glowlight Danio
- Glowlight Tetra
- Gold Barb
- Gold Tetra
- Golden Barb
- Golden Dwarf Barb
- Golden Pencilfish
- Green Barb
- Green Fire Tetra
- Green Neon Tetra
- Harlequin Rasbora
- Hatchet
- Head and Tail Light Tetra
- Honey Blue Eye
- Kamaka Rainbowfish
- Kamaka Rainbowfish
- Kiunga Blue Eye
- Lake Eacham Rainbowfish
- Lake Mbuta Rainbowfish
- Lampeye Killifish
- Lemon Tetra
- Marble Hatchet
- Melon Barb
- Microrasbora kubotai
- Misool Rainbowfish
- Mosquito Rasbora
- Nana Rasbora
- Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish
- Neon Tetra
- Odessa Barb
- Ornate Rainbowfish
- Ornate Tetra
- Pacific Blue Eye
- Panda Tetra
- Pearl Danio
- Platinum Hatchet
- Pygmy Rainbowfish
- Red Dwarf Rasbora
- Red Phantom Tetra
- Redline Rasbora
- Redstripe Rasbora
- Redtail Rasbora
- Redtail Splitfin
- Rose Danio
- Rosy Red Minnow
- Rosy Tetra
- Ruby Barb
- Rummynose Rasbora
- Rummynose Tetra
- Sawbwa Barb
- Spotted Blue Eye
- Spotted Rainbowfish
- Swift Rasbora
- Tami River Rainbowfish
- Threadfin RainbowFish
- Tiger Danio
- White Cloud Mountain Minnow
- Zebra Danio

Species currently listed under "Small Pleco" group: (any pleco under 5 inches)
- Albino Bristlenose Pleco
- Bristlenose Pleco
- Chocolate Zebra Pleco L270
- Clown Pleco
- Flash Pleco
- Goby Pleco
- Golden Bristlenose Pleco
- King Tiger Pleco
- Mega Clown Pleco L340
- Pitbull Pleco
- Rubberlip Pleco
- Rubbernose Pleco
- Spotted Rubberlip Pleco L187a
- Starlight Bristlenose Pleco L183
- Zebra Pleco

In summary, it would be greately helpful if you could point out for me:
- If you find species from the above list that are not safe with Betta splenden with long fins.
- Point out species that are not talked about in this post but safe with Betta splenden. I have not covered any non-shoaling species so I must have missed something there. So far, I have the following in the list: (African Dwarf Frog, Oto).

Thank you!

What's new for 2010 05 17 build:

- Added Gold Laser Cory Cw010.
- Added Leopard Frog Pleco (Peckoltia sp. L134).
- Added Banded Gourami (Colisa fasciata).
- Added Betta smaragdina.
- Added Long-Finned African Tetra (Alestes longipinnis).
- Added Bluefin Notho Killifish (Nothobranchius rachovii Beira 98).
- Added Exochochromis anagenys.
- Added Opaline Gourami as an alias to Blue Gourami.
- Added Silver Flying Fox (Crossocheilus reticulatus).
- Gold Barb has been taken out from the "small peaceful shoaling" group.
- Platy has been marked as safe with male Betta splendens.
- Molly has been marked as safe with male Betta splendens.
- Swordtale has been marked as safe with male Betta splendens.
- Ameca splendens has been marked as safe with male Betta splendens.
- Added more notes to the male Betta splenden about unexpected potential aggression.
- Oscar has been marked as a jumper.
- All arowana species have been marked as jumpers.
- Scleromystax barbatus has been updated to be compatible with temperature up to 24.

- Added Atman (Amtop) AT-3388 1200L filter.

- Added 125L Fluval Roma tank dimension.
- Added 90L Fluval Roma tank dimension.
- Added 200L Fluval Roma tank dimension.
- Added 240L Fluval Roma tank dimension.

- Total number of species in DB has been increased to 893.
- Total number of tanks in DB has been increased to 88.
- Total number of filters in DB has been increased to 305.

To access the application, please click on AqAdvisor site.

If you have any freshwater species that are missing in AqAdvisor DB, please let me know!!! If you disagree with any of the results produced by AqAdvisor, please let me know that too.

If you want to check out the details of the most recent saltwater release (build 2010 05 07), please check out the following thread.

What's new for 2010 05 23 build:

- Added Asher/Bumblebee/Tucano Cory (Corydoras tukano C064).
- Male Swordtales have been marked somewhat more aggressive than the female Swordtales.
- The warning "potentially reaching up to" now respects the unit selected (inch vs cm).
- Spell error for "False Rosy Tetra" has been corrected.
- Removed the warning that German Blue Ram and Bolivian Ram would interbreed.
- Dwarf Platy length has been updated to 1.5 inches. Bioload has also increased significantly due to their shape (fatter than the normal platy)
- Grammar error fixed for the warning - "male betta may attack a male guppy by mistake thinking she is another male betta".
- Temperature requirement for Corydoras metae has been updated to 22-26.

- Added Jad SP-series filters.
- Added Hagen Elite Hush series filters.

- Total number of species in DB has been increased to 896.
- Total number of filters in DB has been increased to 312.

To access the application, please click on AqAdvisor site.

If you have any freshwater species that are missing in AqAdvisor DB, please let me know!!! If you disagree with any of the results produced by AqAdvisor, please let me know that too.

Requester for AquaFX filters: Even their own website has no information on these filters. If you can find any info on them, please forward them to me.
Also, during the past few weeks, I am having some difficulty finding time to work on these projects. If some of your requests are not appearing immediately, my apology in advance. Thanks!

What's new for 2010 06 20 build:

- Added Comet Goldfish.
- Added Green Phantom Pleco L200 (Hemiancistrus subviridi).
- Added Mango Pleco (Baryancistrus sp. L047).
- Jump warning has been added to Giant Danio.
- Bold faced the phrase "do your own research" near the bottom of the page.
- Green Sunfish aggression has been increased slightly. Now it will show warning if mixed with small peaceful species as food.
- Black Kuhli is no longer marked as common shoaler with the common Kuhli species.

- Added Aqua FX series filters.
- Added Laguna Pressure-Flo 700 filter.
- Added JBJ Reaction 4-Stage canister filter.
- Added JBL CristalProfi e-series filters.
- Added 318 Zoo Med Turtle Filter.

- Total number of species in DB has been increased to 899.
- Total number of filters in DB has been increased to 324.

To access the application, please click on AqAdvisor site.

If you have any freshwater species that are missing in AqAdvisor DB, please let me know!!! If you disagree with any of the results produced by AqAdvisor, please let me know that too.

I've been seriously lacking time to work on this project so my apology if I did not add all requested items to the application. Please remind me again if I have missed anything. Thanks!

What's new for 2010 09 13 build:

- Added Monster Wolf Fish (Hoplias aimara).
- Added Otto PF450G filter.
- Added Apistogramma macmasteri.
- Added some additional comments to Crayfish that they are good escape artists too.
- Added Jebo 828/829/835 filters.
- Added Sunburst Platy as an alias to Platy.
- Added Eheim 2226 filter.
- Upper temperarature range for Dwarf Petricola has been increased to 25C.
- pH range for Rasbora borapetensis has been updated to 5.5 - 7.5.
- Added Robertsons Cichlid (Amphilophus robertsoni).
- Added Turquoise Cichlid as an alias to Robertsons Cichlid.
- Added False Firemouth as an alias to Robertsons Cichlid.
- Added Blue Sifter as an alias to Robertsons Cichlid.
- Added Aqueon ProFlex series filters.
- Scientific name for Celestial Pearl Danio has been changed to Danio margaritatus.
- Added Blue Botia (Yasuhikotakia modesta).
- Added Twinbar Platy as an alias to Platy.
- Added Highfin Platy as an alias to Platy.
- Added White Cheeked Goby (Rhinogobius wui).
- Added Aristochromis christyi.
- Added Buccochromis rhoadesii.
- Added Buccochromis lepturus.
- Added Champsochromis caeruleus.
- Added Fossorochromis rostratus.
- Added Lichnochromis acuticeps.
- Added Geophagus altifrons.

- Total number of species in DB has been increased to 917.
- Total number of filters in DB has been increased to 333.

To access the application, please click on AqAdvisor site.

If you have any freshwater species that are missing in AqAdvisor DB, please let me know!!! If you disagree with any of the results produced by AqAdvisor, please let me know that too.