Well, kinda expect that there is one individual who'll take this and run (hint, o not so subtle hint..LOL), but anyways. Are certain goldfish varieties/breeds more difficult to breed than others. Do different varieties of goldfish present different obstacles/complications to raising the fry? Curious what some of the challenges are for different breeds to breeding and raising the fry. Or are they all pretty staright-forward and identical? Especially where some of the more stylized morphs are concerned, that there could be physiological obstacles in both cases.

WYite

Yes yes. Please make with the elaborations.

While I can breed cons for food no problems, goldfish fry or koi fry are always an accidental surprise.

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Are certain goldfish varieties/breeds more difficult to breed than others. Do different varieties of goldfish present different obstacles/complications to raising the fry?

I'll turn that into a 2 part question.
Goldfish breed in the spring and early summer in nature. For along time it was believed that goldfish needed a cool dormant period but what we have found is it does not matter if the livestock is kept at 50* F or 60* F in the winter as long as there is a warming of the water and a lengthening of the Photo period. You can do it any time of year in an aquarium by cooling the tank to 60*F and shorting the light cycle to 8 hr for 3 to4 weeks then allowing the tank to warm and lengthening the light cycle to 12 hours
Are certain goldfish varieties/breeds more difficult to breed than others ?
Without a question some varieties are much more difficult. In general the more compact the body the more difficult to spawn naturally Normally the female releases a pheromone that signals the male that she ripe this trigger a spawning response male the chasing and bumping and the release of a second pheromone that simulates the female to release the egg. many times in very round body goldfish (pearlscales for example) the female will egg bind simply not enough male simulation (ruff sex if you will) In cases like these you may need to help the female a bit by giving her a little squeeze or so time simply picking her up

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Do different varieties of goldfish present different obstacles/complications to raising the fry?

The rising of the fry is pretty straight forward sure there are tricks like you get better head growth from Oranda if they are fed higher protein food at the 2 to 6 month age or TVS will have wider bodies if raised in faster moving water or Pearlscales have a better shape if raised in still water
Here is were thing get a little more complicated as much as good genetics play into what a goldfish will looks like, the rising of the fry is equal to it in important. I will never be able to make up for bad genetics but can make exorbitant good genetic look bad in the miss handling of the fry, In the first 10 days of life the fry are sorted (culled) to remove the weak, deformed, and fry that do not have the right number of fins (single tails when they should be double tails etc) they are move to tub 4'x2'x1' that are bare bottom with a water depth of 8 to10 inch (40 to 50 gallon) and a population density of 10 fry per gallon there is a drip system that adds about 3 gallon of fresh water a hour to the tub. The fish are fed 3 time a day with gel food that is 50% protein. The bottom is clean every second day. At about 2 months the fish will be sorted again this time for body shape and fin development they are move to 270 gallon tubs (4'x3'x3') with a population density of 3 fry per gallon. They are fed pellets that are 35% protein 3 times a day, 15% of this water change every day and the bottom is clean every second day. At around 90 days you can start to see what you really have as far quality goes. This when all the "B" fish are separated from the "A" fish. The Bs are sold to local pet and pond stores. The A's go back into grow out tubs (3'x8'x2') these tubs are actually 270 gallon also but have a lot more swimming area, with a population density of 1 fish per ten gallons with the same feed an water change schedule as before. the water is lowered at this stage to 15 to 18 inch we also add more water moment. This seem to aid in the development of the deep body and helps the fancies develop strong swimming. We continue developing the fish up to 2 year till they are sold, become show fish or become breeder stock.

Every breed or Stock line have there our problems associated with breeding and rising the fish, some don't breed true ( 2 calicoes don't make a calico) , some have physical problems (the Phoenix goldfish with no tail), and just weak genetics (some lines we are reluctant to out cross for fear of losing desirable trates)

Rick

Thank you very much. Kind of what I guessed with the compact body breeds.

I need to clarify what I was after in the second question. At what age/stage of development do traits such as head growth and the compact body start manifesting and do problems arise at that point due to these characteristics developing?

WYite

Different traits develop at different stages
Goldfish will have as many fins and scales type (nacreous, matte, metallic, pearl ) is set at hatching.
Generally body shape will begin to manifest at 4 to 6 weeks and you can get a pretty good idea at 2 to 3 months how good he will be. This is were we begin to look for problem if there are any. Ryukins that swim head down, Ranchu and Oranda that are bottom sitters these are signs of problem to come. I try to cull these fish early but you my not get them all (if ever) till 6 months to a year. All of my lines are good to excellent swimmers and I do my best to avoid breed lines that are not good swimmers. You also see less swim bladder disorder in fish that are raised in swallower water for some reason

The Hood what can I say about head growth. The biggest problem is the hood (wren) can become so large that the goldfish can no longer swim efficiently or see because the eves be come over grown. this can be control by this with wren trimming but it's not something we want to do if you can breed away for it
Head growth start at about 4 to 6 month and continues for the rest of the fish life The two other areas in which hood development can occur are the operculum and below the level of the eyes – the infraorbital area. Development of hoods covering all three areas is commonplace in modern Orandas and some magnificent examples are to be seen. The current popularity of both goosehead and fully hooded Orandas has posed problems in the definition of standards.

Hood growth in Ranchu generally shows a range of development. There are indications that the initial hood form was comparable to the goosehead in the Oranda. Curiously and unexpectedly the attempt to produce a Calico Ranchu has resulted in the Edo-Nishiki which has rather poor hood development. This contrasts with the situation in the Oranda where Calico Orandas frequently have magnificent hoods and blue metallics tend to show poor hood development. The Chinese distinguish two types of hood which they call Lionhead and Tigerhead. The texture of the Tigerhead hood is generally fine and uniform; its most important feature is that the hood covers the head uniformly and the cranial, opercular and infraorbital areas are not as distinct as in the Lionhead.

It may well be a challenge to the breeder to see just how many bells and whistles can be crammed onto the head of a goldfish but I would ask them to spare the fish these unnecessary adornments. I really see no need for a fully hooded Dragon eye with pom-poms. Interestingly, according to the practice of the American Goldfish Society (AGS), fish showing features in addition to the specified characteristics of the variety in question would be ineligible for entry in the relevant show class.


Rick