I have two fish that are sitting at the bottom of the tank, both with off coloration. They look dusty, with a pink/orange undertone. I think it's some sort of parasite, but I'm really not sure. My water quality is great -- nitrates at less than 5mg/L, ammonia at near 0 (0.1/0.2) and my pH is at 8.

I have methylene blue and would like to start treatment before it gets any worse (they haven't been moving much since yesterday, fins down, and just off) but I have no idea if that can have an adverse effect on the others. Is it safe for snails??

Thank you so much for any help on this. I'm really worried!!!

It's not ick. I've been trying to research symptoms and am really not sure if I can identify it with the naked eye. It's a greyish white film. On my telescope fish I can see streaks of it, but i can't tell on the other from the spots.

From the symptoms, i found this: BACTERIAL - caused by spindle shaped, flexible, rod-like Cytophga which are motile over fish's body with peculiar flowing or gliding motion - Gram negative.

no idea if that's it, but if it is methylene blue would most likely be useless as that's for fungal infections. i don't have any place open near me for any other treatments, so i could really use some suggestions. Can i use the methylene bblue without it hurting the fish/snails AND switch treatment in the next few days without doing an entire water change?

And i don't have a water heater as i have cold water fish. but i wish i had one rigfht now. i have a feeling it could have come in handy.

Velvet. The pinkish/orange undertone gives it some of its other names: fish rust and gold dust disease. It's caused by the dinoflagellate Oodinium pilularis. I can't be sure without actually seeing the fish, but it sounds like classic symptoms and appearance from your descriptions. I've never used methylene blue for velvet, but it's in some ich meds so I won't say that it won't help, and honestly I'm not sure if methylene blue is harmful to snails. I'd guess you're better off not taking the chance. Malachite green is somewhat effective against velvet, but it is not snail safe!

Calm the fish by leaving the lights off, raise the water temperature 3° or 4° and do a 50% water change. Add aquarium salt if you haven't already. Remove the carbon from any filtration. IME, the best treatment is a copper sulphate based medication, use as directed. You will need to remove your snails to do this though, as copper is deadly to inverts! Cupramine by Seachem is also a copper-based medication, but is advertised as not absorbing into the filter bed or the substrate, which would make it much safer for reintroducing inverts than copper sulfate based meds. I can't verify that as I haven't used it. Since the fish are already showing outward physical symptoms: the dusty appearance, lethargy, and clamped fins, the disease is pretty advanced. If you see the slime coat and outer scale layer sluffing off, it may be too late, but definitely try anyway, fish can recover miraculously.

The problem with copper-based meds is ensuring the tank is safe for inverts again, as copper sulfate will absorb into porous surfaces, even the silicon of the aquarium seal. You may not ever get enough copper out to reintroduce the snails. Once the fish are recovered, then put the carbon back in the filter. After a few water changes the snails should be able to go back in, once water changes and the carbon remove copper residue from the water. Test it with a good copper test kit. If it's good, as in 0 ppm copper, you can try the snails. If you have a few ramshorn snails, you could put them in before the apple snails to act as the proverbial "canary in the mine." If they're alive after 72 hours, it should be safe for your larger snails. How the Cupramine stacks up against this, I couldn't tell ya.

I'm old school. I like hard core medications to deal with diseases. A lot of people will disagree with my recommendation, and thats all right. I've had poor luck with some of the "gentler, safer" medications on the market today.

WYite

I'm going to try it. I'll have to wait til tomorrow (since no where is open at this time), though and i don't know if it'll be enough. it came on so fast. i noticed the lethargy only yesterday. my oranda hasn't even eaten yet today, as far as i can tell. the telescope nibbled a bit, but barely. i'll set up the tank for the snails now.

i was a little frantic not doing anything and after a lot of reading put in the methylene. from what i read it won't hurt the snails, but i'm going to start the new tank for them anyway to give myself more freedom with meds. do you know if the copper can react at all with methylene blue?

Black eyed Suzie wrote:

do you know if the copper can react at all with methylene blue?

Not for sure, Suzie.

Thank you for your help. For the moment i'm getting the second tank ready. i'll skip class tomorrow to find the cupramine. if i can't, i'll use straight up copper. i've never seen anything like this. my oranda has been going through these short bursts of flailing around the tank, then settling to the bottom. she must have hit her head on something. so now her growth is all but deflated. i'm bummed. i don't know if she's going to make it.

Ok, so the snails are out and the salt is in. Since last night i'm seeing some improvement, which is very relieving. There's no flailing and a little less lethargy. it's good to know that salt can help dislodge the clamped gills a little, making it a little easier for them to breathe.

i'm hoping that the copper sulphate will bring 'em back.

they're sensitive creatures but pretty darn resilient. they've had ick really bad twice since i first got them and they all survived. so maybe there's a chance.

Still more improvements! I couldn't find any copper based medication, so I got acriflavine along with a heater. Something's working -- they're moving a bit more, their fins aren't completely down and they ate a bit. i won't know for sure until a few days probably, but i think they'll pull through.

I've been thinking about the timing -- they got ick end of fall, right when it started snowing. This year it's the same thing. it started snowing last night and since we don't have the heat on yet, the room temperature probably fell more quickly than usual. The tank never got below 18 degrees, as far as i know. but the drop could probably affect their immune system.

Am i totally off on this? Or is it just luck of the draw -- a protozoan fell into my fish tank?

Okie dokie, had to do some figurin', Fahrenheit to Celsius, LOL. 18 shouldn't have been too bad for goldfish, depending on where ya normally keep room temp and how quickly and how far the temp dropped.

As for a protozoan just droppin' into your tank, not likely with oodinium. AFAIK, there is no substantiation of stories it travels airborne. More likely it was there all along, in a dormant state, just waiting for your fish to get stressed and an opportunity to attack. It could have been introduced on a piece of equipment or even by the fish originally. IIRC, didn't you use the gravel that came with the tank, a used tank? That is most likely the source of the disease, IMO. On the otherhand, a lot of tiny aquatic microorganisms and algae spores can travel in a dormant state either through air or on dust particles and can colonize a tank that way. Even Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter, the nitrifying bacteria we rely on, can travel airborne.

WYite

I find that methylene blue works really well as a preventative measure for fungus, like with eggs for example. I've not had as good luck with it treating active fungus. There's better stuff for active fungus but if you have active for reals fungus you have much bigger problems to deal with first. I can't find it now, but one of my books mentions methylene blue also has some antibacterial properties, most likely based on concentration and that it can cause issues with your beneficial bacteria.

I agree with Wyite as far as meds go, I too find that the kinder gentler stuff tends to not work as well.

I'm glad you got some acriflavine. Had I saw this earlier I would have suggested it for treating velvet. I would still remove the snails when treating with it since I can't find any information stating that acriflavine is snail safe. That said arciflavine even with it's powers of tank dying won't have the potential long term issues that the copper based meds have.

I'm going to have to look into Cupramine some too, that sounds pretty spiffy.

I've never used acriflavine, but if saint says it works I won't argue, so sounds like yer in the money.

I think the Cupramine sounds pretty good as well. I need to stock my pharmacy and was lookin' on-line when I came across it. I've been pretty lucky with diseases, but sooner or later something is gonna hit me and I don't wanna be forced to make a run to the store when something pops up.

WYite

The acriflavine is working really well. They are all making a comeback. Every time i check the tank it seems something's improved. I'm really happy, but I'm also really surprised, actually. I didn't think they were going to make it.

There is a plus to this whole situation: I put the snails in the other tank and all of a sudden they're mating! or at least trying to. So at some point i may end up with a whole lot more...

saint_felony wrote:

I find that methylene blue works really well as a preventative measure for fungus, like with eggs for example.

What kind of dosage do you use for prevention?