As you probably read in my pic thread I am in the process of buying the pond now and getting ready to set it up. Now I am debating on wheter to make this a koi pond or a tropical pond. BUT for a fact all the fish in my 25 will be going in there. So there will be 4 fancy goldfish plus 2 black moores, a comet, a shubunkin, a rybunkin goldfish, 2 bala sharks, 1 ID Shark, 2 RTCS, and 2 plecos. So this will be my update thread to keep you'll informed.
Alex

Looking forward to the updates and pics. Best of luck Alex!

Keep us posted.

Sounds like a plan. Have you decided on a size, filter type, etc...?

Good luck, Alex. Keep us posted and don't be too proud or afraid to ask for advice.

WYite

Ok guys thanks for all your support. I do need some advice on what size the pond should be and the type of filter, and if I need a heater, etc...

If you are after koi, you need 1000g and 4 feet deep. Keep in mind koi often hit 3 feet and can get over 4 feet and live over 80 yrs if taken care of properly. They also need very clean water (nitrates, etc). They love plants - to eat them that is...
Koi don't need heaters, they prefer cooler waters.

I am not sure about temp for the catfish, silver dollars, etc... But I believe they may harass the more passive goldfish/koi.

Is this pond indoors or out?

I believe he's planning on an indoor pond, c_scherer123.

Alex, with koi, the 2 RTCs the ID shark you'd want at least a thousand gallons, more if ya can swing it. Basically, as large as ya can get. I didn't think of it before, but the fancy goldfish, moors and comets could quite easily become catfish snacks as the RTCs grow.

WYite

4ft is minimum if the pond is outside for the winter and sometimes if it's really hot out in the summer. The fish farm guys use 6 ft for outside, since they've nearly had some of the 4fters freeze up around here and Mass is more north and colder.

I'm housing a few big koi here right now and they've been doing just fine in a 3ft deep pond indoors. (If the warm spell keeps up around here they may be gone real soon now. Whoo.)

As for the fish, I think it's better you pick one set or the other. Those RTC kittens you got now are eventually going to get big enough that their gonna find your fancy goldfish, black moors, comets, shubunkin and rybunkin all tasty snacks. I don't know the growth rate of the 2 bala sharks but they might be nomed on too. At about two feet, Grunty (the rtc/tsn) can make a 6in comet disappear faster than you can say abracadabra.

It may make more sense to move your Aro and the bigger catfish (you have a big tsn and a rtc/tsn I thought) into the pond, grown out the kittens and the balas in that big tank you got with the goldies, and then when they're big enough move the rtcs and balas into the pond and leave the goldies in the big tank.

With decent filtration (which is fairly easy to do with ponds) I like to use roughly 100 gallons per foot (I round up too so like 3.2 becomes 4 for example). Make sure you use the adult size of the fish, and not just what they are now.

I'm guessing on adult sizes but for you: TSN = 4ft, RTC/TSN = 5ft, 2xRTC = 8ft, ID Shark = 4ft and the Aro 4ft.

25ft of fish x 100g = 2500g pond.

Me, I'd do a 10'x12' rectangle at 3 feet deep, which will give you almost 2700g to give you some wiggle room for the Balas (too lazy to look up how big they get). You'll need a 20'x22' pond liner for that size, and make sure you get some people to help at least with the liner. They're a pain to try and manhandle yourself.

For heating the water what's the average temp of the room it's going in?
For that smaller pond I just recently built I used a waterbed heater. It's too small for the size you need but if the room is warm enough two or three heaters may cover it fairly nicely. If the room is on the colder side, granger and mcmastercarr both sell hot tub heaters (~$200) that will work, although you'll have to do some plumbing to get it into the system properly.

As for cheap/decent filtration, the Pondmaster stuff is pretty nice, and Lowes house brand, Garden Treasures, makes some decent canister filters too. For that size, I'd run one of the Lowes BF1000 canisters driven by a Pondmaster 750 pump (with a prefilter) out to a waterfall of some sort and then have maybe two Pondmaster 1500s running in other places in the pond. You could go with a fancy external system, but I find them to be far more work to install and far more expensive for the most part too. With multiples in random places, if one stops working you don't end up having your entire filtration system come to a halt. Especially since my stocking rates depend on working filtration.

Even if your not going to build it until this summer, getting some of the supplies now is a good idea, since it seems like everything pond related is on clearance at the big stores to make room for new junk coming in soon.

I've built bunches of ponds, indoors and out, so if you want to know anything specific just ask.

Heh Catfish snacks.. Great minds think alike 'eh Wyite?

saint_felony wrote:

4ft is minimum if the pond is outside for the winter and sometimes if it's really hot out in the summer. The fish farm guys use 6 ft for outside, since they've nearly had some of the 4fters freeze up around here and Mass is more north and colder.

I'm housing a few big koi here right now and they've been doing just fine in a 3ft deep pond indoors. (If the warm spell keeps up around here they may be gone real soon now. Whoo.)

As for the fish, I think it's better you pick one set or the other. Those RTC kittens you got now are eventually going to get big enough that their gonna find your fancy goldfish, black moors, comets, shubunkin and rybunkin all tasty snacks. I don't know the growth rate of the 2 bala sharks but they might be nomed on too. At about two feet, Grunty (the rtc/tsn) can make a 6in comet disappear faster than you can say abracadabra.

It may make more sense to move your Aro and the bigger catfish (you have a big tsn and a rtc/tsn I thought) into the pond, grown out the kittens and the balas in that big tank you got with the goldies, and then when they're big enough move the rtcs and balas into the pond and leave the goldies in the big tank.

With decent filtration (which is fairly easy to do with ponds) I like to use roughly 100 gallons per foot (I round up too so like 3.2 becomes 4 for example). Make sure you use the adult size of the fish, and not just what they are now.

I'm guessing on adult sizes but for you: TSN = 4ft, RTC/TSN = 5ft, 2xRTC = 8ft, ID Shark = 4ft and the Aro 4ft.

25ft of fish x 100g = 2500g pond.

Me, I'd do a 10'x12' rectangle at 3 feet deep, which will give you almost 2700g to give you some wiggle room for the Balas (too lazy to look up how big they get). You'll need a 20'x22' pond liner for that size, and make sure you get some people to help at least with the liner. They're a pain to try and manhandle yourself.

For heating the water what's the average temp of the room it's going in?
For that smaller pond I just recently built I used a waterbed heater. It's too small for the size you need but if the room is warm enough two or three heaters may cover it fairly nicely. If the room is on the colder side, granger and mcmastercarr both sell hot tub heaters (~$200) that will work, although you'll have to do some plumbing to get it into the system properly.

As for cheap/decent filtration, the Pondmaster stuff is pretty nice, and Lowes house brand, Garden Treasures, makes some decent canister filters too. For that size, I'd run one of the Lowes BF1000 canisters driven by a Pondmaster 750 pump (with a prefilter) out to a waterfall of some sort and then have maybe two Pondmaster 1500s running in other places in the pond. You could go with a fancy external system, but I find them to be far more work to install and far more expensive for the most part too. With multiples in random places, if one stops working you don't end up having your entire filtration system come to a halt. Especially since my stocking rates depend on working filtration.

Even if your not going to build it until this summer, getting some of the supplies now is a good idea, since it seems like everything pond related is on clearance at the big stores to make room for new junk coming in soon.

I've built bunches of ponds, indoors and out, so if you want to know anything specific just ask.

wow thats a good idea!!! I think I am going to put all my fish from the 150 into the pond. I'll upgrade the goldies to the 150.

Sounds like a good plan BSF. Keep the coolwater fish in the 150 and the tropicals in the pond.

dirtydawg10 wrote:

Sounds like a good plan BSF. Keep the coolwater fish in the 150 and the tropicals in the pond.

Thank you!

saint_felony wrote:

Heh Catfish snacks.. Great minds think alike 'eh Wyite?

Yup. Check HERE, fourth post in, to confirm it, LOL. That was pre-RTCs though, needs a bigger pond now.

Think big, BSF, think big.

WYite

That's awesome. I didn't even remember you posting that before.

If Biggie has the room to do the 2700, he'll be set. Hopefully he has a big open space in the basement and one of his parents is crazy enough to let him do it or help.

Though Biggie I forgot to mention, if you do put this in the basement and it's unfinished concrete, you're going to want to get subflooring at very least for the pond area. I'm personally a fan of Dry-Lock tiles for subflooring (did I mention I'm lazy?) but I'm not sure if they'll be able to support that sort of weight.

You just want it up off the floor a bit, so in the winter when the ground freezes and your concrete basement floor gets super cold it doesn't make it that much harder to heat. That's why I was asking about what room your going to stick the pond in.

All depends on how cold it gets, really. The frame pool I have I managed to get away with throwing down a big scrap of astroturf, and then putting a thick outdoor rug (hemp or jute or something. It's super ugly but also was super cheap) with a lot of openings for ambient air.

saint_felony wrote:

That's awesome. I didn't even remember you posting that before.

If Biggie has the room to do the 2700, he'll be set. Hopefully he has a big open space in the basement and one of his parents is crazy enough to let him do it or help.

Though Biggie I forgot to mention, if you do put this in the basement and it's unfinished concrete, you're going to want to get subflooring at very least for the pond area. I'm personally a fan of Dry-Lock tiles for subflooring (did I mention I'm lazy?) but I'm not sure if they'll be able to support that sort of weight.

You just want it up off the floor a bit, so in the winter when the ground freezes and your concrete basement floor gets super cold it doesn't make it that much harder to heat. That's why I was asking about what room your going to stick the pond in.

All depends on how cold it gets, really. The frame pool I have I managed to get away with throwing down a big scrap of astroturf, and then putting a thick outdoor rug (hemp or jute or something. It's super ugly but also was super cheap) with a lot of openings for ambient air.

Ok Yeah it will probably be in my basement or outside I am still going to decide.

Those tropicals won't do outside. They won't survive the next winter.

saint_felony wrote:

Those tropicals won't do outside. They won't survive the next winter.

Ok well I will probably make it inside then.

Ok heres an update guys..... Today I trade a jardini arowana, a water cow, and my 2 lima shovelnoses for a 13'' tsn, and a 10'' Marbled pim catfish. So in my 150 I have 2 tsns one about 13'' and one 9'', a 10'' marbled pim, a 12'' bala shark and my 2 silverdollars. I am getting the pond ready this week and next month. So by May the pond should be up. In 2 weeks I am going to be upgrading the rtcs from my 20 to the 150. And then 1 week after that the pond will be filled with these monster cats. Then the 150 will have the bala sharks and the 2 silverdollars. Then be turned into a severum tank.
Alex
P.S PICS WILL BE POSTED OF THE NEW GUYS LATER

How about some pics of the pond?

It'd make a great DIY thread with each step photographed as ya go.

WYite

Wyomingite wrote:

How about some pics of the pond?

It'd make a great DIY thread with each step photographed as ya go.

WYite

I did buy it yet. Its going to be one of those 1000 gallons rubbermand pond things. Just made for my monster cats,,

Cool. There is still time to do the DIY project thread, then. Lookin' forward to pics as ya set it up.

WYite

Wyomingite wrote:

Cool. There is still time to do the DIY project thread, then. Lookin' forward to pics as ya set it up.

WYite

Ok. I don't know how I am going to do DIY though

Pics....of what you buy and what you are doing and you are going to need way more than 1000 gallons....something along the lines of 5000 gallons would be minimum.