Mostlycichlids wrote:

Pics....of what you buy and what you are doing and you are going to need way more than 1000 gallons....something along the lines of 5000 gallons would be minimum.

How much would 5000 gallons cost?? I can spend up to 500 on the pond. If its something like 550 I can talkl my dad into getting it.

I don't know I dont keep tanks or fish that big.

Mostlycichlids wrote:

I don't know I dont keep tanks or fish that big.

Ok thanks. SF or Wyite if you find out the price please let me know.

There would be a lot of leg work involved to get things on sale/cheap but as of right now, unless you can build a number of things needed from parts, you're not going to get that size under $500.

You're gonna have to do some work to keep it under that much as it is. $300 is average for the 1000g poly tubs. Then filtering that, you'd need a pump and I would go with a canister filter outside and a heater. I'm assuming your talking about getting the 9 foot circle poly tank. Those aren't very deep. Something like 2 and a half feet is the most common.

It would be cheaper to get a frame pool from target or something, and use that instead of the poly tub.

Also lid. That's shallow enough that I'd be concerned the cats might jump if they get spooked. Never mind the Aro being jumptastic.

Lowes and Petsmart clearanced the hell out of their pond gear come beginning of feb, for the new season stuff. I got 750gph pumps for $20, big heavy canister filters for $40 and a whole lot of pond liners. If your lucky maybe they still have some left. But unless you're good a trash picking or have construction sites nearby to loot, you're setting up for epic fail with those fish.

Like I said before, I've built a crap ton of ponds. I don't mind giving ya a hand trying to get something close to your budget. 5000g isn't doable at $500 but with some hunting and building stuff yourself you may be able to get to 2500.

saint_felony wrote:

There would be a lot of leg work involved to get things on sale/cheap but as of right now, unless you can build a number of things needed from parts, you're not going to get that size under $500.

You're gonna have to do some work to keep it under that much as it is. $300 is average for the 1000g poly tubs. Then filtering that, you'd need a pump and I would go with a canister filter outside and a heater. I'm assuming your talking about getting the 9 foot circle poly tank. Those aren't very deep. Something like 2 and a half feet is the most common.

It would be cheaper to get a frame pool from target or something, and use that instead of the poly tub.

Also lid. That's shallow enough that I'd be concerned the cats might jump if they get spooked. Never mind the Aro being jumptastic.

Lowes and Petsmart clearanced the hell out of their pond gear come beginning of feb, for the new season stuff. I got 750gph pumps for $20, big heavy canister filters for $40 and a whole lot of pond liners. If your lucky maybe they still have some left. But unless you're good a trash picking or have construction sites nearby to loot, you're setting up for epic fail with those fish.

Like I said before, I've built a crap ton of ponds. I don't mind giving ya a hand trying to get something close to your budget. 5000g isn't doable at $500 but with some hunting and building stuff yourself you may be able to get to 2500.

Ok yes please help me set one up.

How good are you with wood?
Do you have tools?
What size room do you have?
What's the average temperature of the room?
Flooring type of the room?

The following depends on what type of room and size it is but here's a good starting point:

If there's a Lowes by you call and see if they have any of the larger pond liners on clearance.
The beginning of the month mine had 20x22 liners on clearance for $100ish.

Ask if they have any Lowes item number 60030 in stock. It's a Garden Treasures (Lowes house brand) external canister pond filter for up to 1000g they had them marked down to $40 here. They're chainable, so if you can get two or three.

In the pond section they also have a waterfall return. Not sure the part number but it's a round basin with a lower side to pour back into the pond. They're like 10 to 20 depending on how big one you get. Doesn't matter size, just pick one you like the looks of. I get the funny shaped ones because I like how they look with plants stuffed in 'em.

Wood:
This is where the measuring comes in. Ask for the cull section and see what they have sometimes you can get good deals, but you want to measure your area, and you're building a box to put the liner into. I can work up some rough measurements depending on the liner you find and the room size. I prefer to use pressure treated wood in case any of it comes into regular contact with water. Pine gets funky. Cedar is wicked awesome, but also stupid expensive. PT is gonna get you the best bang for your buck. 2x4s at 12 feet are usually around 4 bucks though so it's not that bad.

Lid:
The have "pet safe" screen in lowes. it's nylon mesh, and you could use it and some of the wood to make a lid. That's what I'm going to use on the one here for the Aro pond. You'll need some hinges and stuff too, but that's later on in the building process and fairly cheap just make sure they're some water safe/outdoor metal when you get them.

At Petsmart:
Again beginning of the month, they had Pondmaster 750gph pumps on sale for $23ish. They also had the 510s for $20, but get the 750s if they have them. Get 3. two for the filters one for backup in case one fails. You're stocking it kinda heavy so I would filter it more, but it should be a decent compromise for the budget you have.

Not sure what normal prices are, if you can't find the parts at the prices they were earlier on in the month, start looking online for deals. You can run any gear by me and I'll let you know if I've used it and if it sucks or not.

saint_felony wrote:

How good are you with wood?
Do you have tools?
What size room do you have?
What's the average temperature of the room?
Flooring type of the room?

The following depends on what type of room and size it is but here's a good starting point:

If there's a Lowes by you call and see if they have any of the larger pond liners on clearance.
The beginning of the month mine had 20x22 liners on clearance for $100ish.

Ask if they have any Lowes item number 60030 in stock. It's a Garden Treasures (Lowes house brand) external canister pond filter for up to 1000g they had them marked down to $40 here. They're chainable, so if you can get two or three.

In the pond section they also have a waterfall return. Not sure the part number but it's a round basin with a lower side to pour back into the pond. They're like 10 to 20 depending on how big one you get. Doesn't matter size, just pick one you like the looks of. I get the funny shaped ones because I like how they look with plants stuffed in 'em.

Wood:
This is where the measuring comes in. Ask for the cull section and see what they have sometimes you can get good deals, but you want to measure your area, and you're building a box to put the liner into. I can work up some rough measurements depending on the liner you find and the room size. I prefer to use pressure treated wood in case any of it comes into regular contact with water. Pine gets funky. Cedar is wicked awesome, but also stupid expensive. PT is gonna get you the best bang for your buck. 2x4s at 12 feet are usually around 4 bucks though so it's not that bad.

Lid:
The have "pet safe" screen in lowes. it's nylon mesh, and you could use it and some of the wood to make a lid. That's what I'm going to use on the one here for the Aro pond. You'll need some hinges and stuff too, but that's later on in the building process and fairly cheap just make sure they're some water safe/outdoor metal when you get them.

At Petsmart:
Again beginning of the month, they had Pondmaster 750gph pumps on sale for $23ish. They also had the 510s for $20, but get the 750s if they have them. Get 3. two for the filters one for backup in case one fails. You're stocking it kinda heavy so I would filter it more, but it should be a decent compromise for the budget you have.

Not sure what normal prices are, if you can't find the parts at the prices they were earlier on in the month, start looking online for deals. You can run any gear by me and I'll let you know if I've used it and if it sucks or not.

Unfourntaly I don't have a petsmart near me. Just lowes. I called Lowes and they are out of pond supplies until next Wednsday. All they have left is some filters and nets, and something called enium..idk

Anwsers:
How good are you with wood: I am not that good with wood, but my fiend can help he's a carpenter.
Do you have tools: what kind of tools?
What size room do you have: a big basement, don't know dimensions
What's the average temperature of the room: from 30-50 degrees in the morning, 60-70 degres at night
Flooring type of the room: Cement

Tools to work with wood. Tape measure, circular saw and a screw gun at least.

Measure the basement. Length and width of the area you're using. Outlets near by and if any of them are gfci, and hopefully they're a decent height off the ground too.

30 to 50 degrees in the morning? WTF? That seems very very wrong. Get a cheap digital thermometer with a min/max setting and put it down there for a few days. (8 to 10 bucks at walmart) Get actual minimum and maximum temperature ranges. Heating that much water in an area that gets 30 degrees is going to suck balls. The rest of your house must be mad crazy cold to boot if that were the case.

Cement flooring. Oke, you'll want to add a small area of subflooring then too. The size of the pond plus a foot or so. You can get dri-lock flooring tiles, and pop em together, or make your own subflooring, with 2x4s and 1/4" plywood. I'm lazy and use the dri-lock tiles, but you have a tight budget so the plywood may be a better option.

Lowes rarely knows what they have as far as pond gear goes. Usually it's just one person somewhere that never ever answers the phone. Ask about that one item number I gave you for sure, the 60030 one.

Pumps and stuff you're just going to have to start doing some legwork. Hitting ebay and other places online. Pumps can be had cheap but, like you're going to have to hunt. Check if harbor freight, northern tools or tractor supply has cheap heavy duty pumps.

Dont forget to post pics for us of the basement and area you are working with to give us an idea!

Any obstructions, especially. I'm assuming you're talking about a plain unfinished open area. But anything that could get in the way, washer, dryer, water heater ect.

saint_felony wrote:

Tools to work with wood. Tape measure, circular saw and a screw gun at least.

Measure the basement. Length and width of the area you're using. Outlets near by and if any of them are gfci, and hopefully they're a decent height off the ground too.

30 to 50 degrees in the morning? WTF? That seems very very wrong. Get a cheap digital thermometer with a min/max setting and put it down there for a few days. (8 to 10 bucks at walmart) Get actual minimum and maximum temperature ranges. Heating that much water in an area that gets 30 degrees is going to suck balls. The rest of your house must be mad crazy cold to boot if that were the case.

Cement flooring. Oke, you'll want to add a small area of subflooring then too. The size of the pond plus a foot or so. You can get dri-lock flooring tiles, and pop em together, or make your own subflooring, with 2x4s and 1/4" plywood. I'm lazy and use the dri-lock tiles, but you have a tight budget so the plywood may be a better option.

Lowes rarely knows what they have as far as pond gear goes. Usually it's just one person somewhere that never ever answers the phone. Ask about that one item number I gave you for sure, the 60030 one.

Pumps and stuff you're just going to have to start doing some legwork. Hitting ebay and other places online. Pumps can be had cheap but, like you're going to have to hunt. Check if harbor freight, northern tools or tractor supply has cheap heavy duty pumps.

Ok first thing I'll have to look in the toolbox to see if I have those. To be really honest I don't what the temp is down there so yes I will buy the thermemeter. I will see about getting a new floor, how does plywood work?? I am going to take a stop over to lowes today.. and for pumps I may be able to get my hands on an old one.

Plywood is big sheets of pressed wood. If you got a friend that's a carpenter, then you shouldn't have to worry about it as much.

That being said, if you're asking about how plywood works, it may be a better idea to look into getting a frame pool.

Besides the ones I've built I also have an "emergency" rectangular version of one of these:
http://www.intexcorp.com/metalframe.htm

Mine is almost 9'x11' by 30 inches deep. I got mine cheap at the end of season at Target. I think they were like $100 or $125 start of the season.

You'll spend less on the pond and frame and that will free up more moneys to get dri-lock tiles if you're not sure how to do subflooring.

Lazy:
http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx
They're 5 bucks a pop for a 2x2 square.

I would also cover any subflooring you build with some cheap indoor/outdoor carpet or astroturf. You should be able to get a remnant chunk for pretty cheap.

So let's see.

~$100 frame pool.
~$180 for drilock squares. (if you do a 10x12 area for under a 9x11 pool)
~$20 for scrap of astroturf. (Be sure to tell the guys at the store what your're doing with it, they may even give you some piece with stains or what not for free.)
~$60 for two waterbed heaters. (I paid $30 for the one here, I don't know what prices they run normally though) A spa heater is going to blow your budget.

Which leaves $140 for pump and filter.

You could get a Pondmaster 1500 for that size pool, and it should be sufficient if you also use the filter that comes with the pool. They run normally $100.

With the free pump, you would need to know the gph rating on it. I would still highly recommend that you get an equal or better pump to keep on hand.

Also make very sure whatever pump you get has the same size imputs/outputs as the other punp. It's pretty sucky to find that you originally used 3/4 and the replacement pump only takes 1/2

saint_felony wrote:

Plywood is big sheets of pressed wood. If you got a friend that's a carpenter, then you shouldn't have to worry about it as much.

That being said, if you're asking about how plywood works, it may be a better idea to look into getting a frame pool.

Besides the ones I've built I also have an "emergency" rectangular version of one of these:
http://www.intexcorp.com/metalframe.htm

Mine is almost 9'x11' by 30 inches deep. I got mine cheap at the end of season at Target. I think they were like $100 or $125 start of the season.

You'll spend less on the pond and frame and that will free up more moneys to get dri-lock tiles if you're not sure how to do subflooring.

Lazy:
http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx
They're 5 bucks a pop for a 2x2 square.

I would also cover any subflooring you build with some cheap indoor/outdoor carpet or astroturf. You should be able to get a remnant chunk for pretty cheap.

So let's see.

~$100 frame pool.
~$180 for drilock squares. (if you do a 10x12 area for under a 9x11 pool)
~$20 for scrap of astroturf. (Be sure to tell the guys at the store what your're doing with it, they may even give you some piece with stains or what not for free.)
~$60 for two waterbed heaters. (I paid $30 for the one here, I don't know what prices they run normally though) A spa heater is going to blow your budget.

Which leaves $140 for pump and filter.

You could get a Pondmaster 1500 for that size pool, and it should be sufficient if you also use the filter that comes with the pool. They run normally $100.

With the free pump, you would need to know the gph rating on it. I would still highly recommend that you get an equal or better pump to keep on hand.

Also make very sure whatever pump you get has the same size imputs/outputs as the other punp. It's pretty sucky to find that you originally used 3/4 and the replacement pump only takes 1/2

Good. Thanks for the info there I'll visit the websites.

You're not going to be able to order them from there. I just was giving them for info.

The panels are at lowes in the lumber section. Most stores (Walmart, Target, Dicks, Sports Authority, Toys-R-Us) carry those pools once it gets a little closer to summer.

You'll still need a lid of some sort too don't forget.

saint_felony wrote:

You're not going to be able to order them from there. I just was giving them for info.

The panels are at lowes in the lumber section. Most stores (Walmart, Target, Dicks, Sports Authority, Toys-R-Us) carry those pools once it gets a little closer to summer.

You'll still need a lid of some sort too don't forget.

I know where all the pools are. I hope to find a good one

If you go the pool route whatever you do *DO NOT* get one of the inflatable kinds. They will cause you nothing but problems. The el cheapo flexible plastic kind I wouldn't use either. That would be too shallow anyhow.

Also, you can use the filter that comes with them too, but that by no means would make for your primary filter. I used the filter that it came with the pool I have as a bio filter. I stuffed the plastic guards that go into the pool itself with coarse foam, and then filled the filter tank with bio-balls.

saint_felony wrote:

If you go the pool route whatever you do *DO NOT* get one of the inflatable kinds. They will cause you nothing but problems. The el cheapo flexible plastic kind I wouldn't use either. That would be too shallow anyhow.

Also, you can use the filter that comes with them too, but that by no means would make for your primary filter. I used the filter that it came with the pool I have as a bio filter. I stuffed the plastic guards that go into the pool itself with coarse foam, and then filled the filter tank with bio-balls.

Ok yeah I was going to use the filter the pool comes with, and then get a second one...

It's not going to be able to handle the schmutz from the fish. The stock filter can barely handle the scum from my kids when they played in it. With the epic stocking you're doing you will need additional filtering.

You can use it for a bio filter, but you will need much more filtration then those can handle. Keep in mind, those little filters are built with the expectation that you're also using chlorine in the water.

saint_felony wrote:

It's not going to be able to handle the schmutz from the fish. The stock filter can barely handle the scum from my kids when they played in it. With the epic stocking you're doing you will need additional filtering.

You can use it for a bio filter, but you will need much more filtration then those can handle. Keep in mind, those little filters are built with the expectation that you're also using chlorine in the water.

Yeah thats what I ment I am going to use it as a bio filter. Then have some other filters in there,

Did you manage to score that free pump yet?

I got a heads up from the lowes guys down here that some of their pump models have been discontinued, including one of the 900gph ones.

how does a waterbed heater work in a pond? where do you put it? i have an outdoor pond right now it is 4 feet deep and 7x4 on the sides right now there are just feeder goldfish in there right now and have a bunch of insulation on the side of the pond too but i still thin that the pond is too cold i know i might not need it but if i was going to use one how would i use it?

Essentially a waterbed heater is an under the tank reptile heater, only on a significantly larger scale.

I use a waterbed heater on an indoor pond. Mine at least wouldn't survive the outdoors, since it's non water proofed plastic housing. You may be able to make one waterproof but it be cheaper at that point to get a low end spa heater.

If you are doing it inside, it's something that would need to be planned for in construction, or you would need to drain your pond and then put it under it provided it was the right sort of pond liner.

I built a pond indoors, and used flexible liner. At the time I didn't know what was going in it, but I wanted a way to heat it if need be. While I was building the pond, I built a wood frame so it was up off the floor slightly, put down plywood, the waterbed heater then ran the power and thermometer lines out and put the empty pond liner in on top of it.

Once you fill the pond (or waterbed for that matter) the weight of the water keeps the heater from moving. Average waterbed is 200 to 250 gallons, the pond this thing is heating is around 500 and managing just fine. It took a while to get up to temperature, but the hose line I was using averages 55 to 60 degrees for tap cold water around here. Once it finally did get heated the temperature in the water is about 2 degrees off what the thermostat says it is.

I don't know what the weather is on average in St. Louis, but large enough and well fed enough goldies should be fine overwinter outside. The biggest issue is that the pond doesn't completely freeze over or freeze solid. We built around a 4 foot deep by 20x15 pond at my mom's and she has various goldies outside year round. The babies that don't get eaten or given away often make it just fine to next summer.

yeah this was a bad and long winter inSt. Louis but it never completly froze and since you are in tight with some park ranger peeps how hard do you think it will be to get some muskie in there?

I wouldn't want 'em. Those get gigantic. Adults do things like eat ducklings out of the water. No thanks.

I'm not sure what they're status is, I don't believe they're threatened/endangered but I remember there being a lot of catch and release stuff for them, or at very least for the big ones.

i know and i think they are VHS or something like that i've tried to look up getting some byt havent found any info except that they are sold in LFS in Miliwaukee