Try these. Very hard to photograph!

I'm with MC and saint that doesn't look like ich from those photo's. Are those white spots fussy looking and is there any chance those are just white spot that are natural. If it is just ich than the salt and heat is the best treatment, but I'm thinking it's more.

How often are you getting ich, if you have had it in that tank several times then there
is something else that is causing you fish to be more susceptible to ich, as the others have mentioned.

I personally have only ever had ich once and it was very easy to treat.

No fuzzy etc. They could be natural because I've a feeling this fish has had a few white spots on his fins forever. BUT some at least seem to be new and like I've said. If I discontinue treatment it spreads until I'm looking at half a dozen white spots in the tailfins/faces/bodies of all the fish.

I've had Ich a couple of times in the past. I've 5 tanks and its usually come about due to no quarantine. In this instance it showed up around a week after adding a new arrival. I did quarantine this fish, but at unheated washroom tank temp. Maybe around 55-60F? This I think is why he didn't show any symptoms while under quarantine. In the past its been easy to treat, raise the heat a little, throw any brand Ich cure in the tank for the recommended length of time.

I'm of the opinion that Ich doesn't really 'lurk' in a tank just waiting to strike. I think that there can be asymptomatic cases, but if it is brought to a tank, it'll infect what it can, but otherwise it dies out pretty quick if it can't stay on a fish. I understand that no slime coat can lead to it remaining at a low level infection in the gills, but meh.

I figure it came with the new guy. I saw it spread a bit over several fish and look just like Ich. Check a previous photo I posted of a BM. I've been unable to completely eradicate it each time for some reason and each time its come back slightly more resistant than before. I just don't know why I can't get rid of it off this Ranchu's fins.

I could just continue treating at this heat for another few days to be sure but I've had 89-90F + medication + salt for 14 days now. These spots are still here. How long am I supposed to keep it like this before I just say 'ok, it ISN'T Ich?' but if I do lower the heat and stop treating, what do I do if it starts spreading around again? It'll be even harder to get rid of this time.

Dude, I don't think you have Ich anymore on that fish ,from the pic that is an injury not ich. Let me ask, what are the tank mates?

Those photos are a bit blurry but I agree that it looks like injuries from getting picked on or bashed into something.

Besides tank mates what sort of filtration do you have going? A strong flow could be pushing that guy into something, or the fancy head growths could be covering the eyes enough that if there's a sharp something he could just be bonking into it.

@Mostly - Tankmates, a blackmoor, lemonhead ranchu and an oranda. All double tailed fancy goldfish.

@saint - No hard decor at all excluding a thin layer of gravel. Plants are java moss and marimo and floating anacharis or hydrilla and some other floating plant, uncertain which seems to take its nosebag from the water column and roots off the stem? It is easy to grow anyway. I'm in the practice of hacking big chunks of it out of other tanks.

Filtration is usually an internal fluval U4 alone but at the moment I've got a couple of no brand internals hooked up to the other side of the tank for extra surface agitation. http://www.ketteringkoi.com/acatalog/Aqua-Flow_200.html to be exact.

I will try to take a better picture maybe, it doesn't look much like injury to me but they are poor photos. I took around 70 to get those 3. Any hints on that POTY winner?

Ok, update. Not so awful news.

My black ranchu has maybe twice as many spots on his pectoral fins and a new one on his head. I'm past two weeks now of 90F heat and again medication. I did a water change yesterday, I often seem to get new spots after a water change. I'm really at a loss here.

AND AWFUL NEWS.

Today I came back to find my black moor in some trouble. As a fish with telescope eyes she has a face shaped like a double headed hammer. This shape fitted perfectly between the back of the Fluval U4 and one of the heaters. She was trapped and basically the heater has partially cooked her. Both eyes are damaged, the eye on the heater size is swollen three times the size of her other eye and seems to have damage under the lens. Her gill covers are ragged and worn through in places. Both sides are heavily abraded, the heater facing side down deep into flesh.

Totally ... urgh.

Strangely she doesn't seem too bothered at this point. She looks awful.

I'm now trying to think of what to do, my gf and her family is going to never forgive me if I refuse to attend her special family Christmas, her Dad very likely hasn't got another christmas left. I can't leave her in the tank because if she does die she'll kill the whole tank by the time we return.

If I set up a new tank for her alone tonight then at least I've got cycled filters, but I've not got heaters to keep the 'hospital' at the same temp they've been treated at. I could maybe split the heaters and handle them -5 degrees over the next few days if that wouldn't stress her further but then I could come back to her floating and the other goldies covered and dying of whitespot.

Any suggestions? I could try to pick up a spare heater tomorrow and quickly set up a hospital before we are supposed to leave? They'll all be unattended for three days. Jeez.

seting up a hospital tank would help buying a heater cover could stop your fish from getting close to the heater hope your fish gets better

Some of that damage may be superficial, and while looking nasty may not be all that bad.

If the fish is acting fine, eating and getting around I would actually leave it alone, especially with the other treatments going on.

What I would do would be to run to the hardware store, and get a hunk of pvc pipe that the heater would fit into. If it's a submersible, just stick it in and have the wire out the top. I've done that plenty of times with turtles. It will cut down on the heaters effectiveness a bit, so you may need to tweak it up some to get it at the ich treating temp it was at.

Another thing I wanted to ask you about, was how long have you had these goldies?

I've got three here right now I'm looking after with mystery spots, mostly on the wen and a tiny bit on the fins, and my reading up on it last night at least for them is that they may have carp pox. It's a herpes virus, so there's no cure, and any major stress can bring it out, like the heat and all the med treatments you've been doing.

I can't tell from your pix, but if you search for it online, you'll get a decent amount of images that should give you a good idea if yours matches up with it.

I've managed to take some better photos. I'll look up online inna-bit.





I'm sure you would but if you open them up and then get them full size in another window you'll get the best look! Thanks for the help, I'd love to think it was something else but I'm not sure it looks like carp pox.

I've had these fish maybe 5 years?

Nope, that looks nothing like what I've seen of carp pox.

At this point, I'm leaning towards bacterial infection. I have no idea what you have access to over there, but a broad spectrum antibiotic for gram negative bacteria, may take care of it for you.

If you can get it I would use either tetracycline, erythromycin or cephalexin.

So you are pretty sure I'm not looking at whitespot?

I mean, it does spread as further white spots to other fish/fins/wens each time I've lowered the heat or stopped treating.

All antibiotics are controlled and only available with veterinary supervision. I guess I could make some enquiries.

We have other medications but they are pretty much things like formaldehyde, designed to lower the overall bacteria count and maybe let the fish fight it off?

Honestly, I don't know.

Unless your not doing something right and not realizing it, which I find it hard to believe, nearly any ich should have been wiped out by now.

Were it me, and I treated for ich as many times as you have and they still had it, I would have tried an antibiotic/antifungal combo just to be sure. But getting common broad spectrum antibiotics over here are pretty easy.

Are vets painfully expensive over there? Can you order meds from somewhere over here and have them shipped? Is it just the UK that's retarded about antibiotics or is it the whole EU? MAybe you could take your gf to France for a weekend to pick up fish meds?

I've gotten back to them after being away and they are fine, including the BM (burnt moor!).

All the other fish are just fine, Black Ranchu still has his fin spots and a couple on his face but its much the same as before. At this point I'm tempted to just stop treating and see if it actually gets worse. It isn't going anywhere with the excessive heat and excessive salt and medication. If it is Ich and had become resistant to everything I'd tried then it'd have managed a few generations now and I'd think to see it covering all the fish.

I think you will be fine just going back to your normal routine with the fish. The spots IMO are just slight wounds, as saint said any and all ich should have been and is likely wiped out by now.

Well, yesterday I made the decision to keep it up for another week only. I stripped out the last of the décor, upped the salt a little further and medicated as usual. Fish became very unhappy an hour or two later, clamped fins, floating idle at the bottom. Very different to how I'd ever seen them. I carried out a 10% water change and they went back to usual. Maybe a slight overdose or just too much at once? Meh.

Today I've got my ranchu with some two more spots on his face, these seem sort of fluffy. Who knows. It isn't going away at this point and its been red hot, salted and medicated for months now.

I've taken the decision to just drop the heat back from 89-90F to 70F. I'm going to monitor closely and see what develops. I've got a mixed bacterial fungus treatment to hand and I've got some whitespot medication still. Either way I've got options if it seems to get any worse. Going to high levels of salting + moderate heat or splitting medication to twice a day amounts, trying other medication. Isolating the one fish who keeps showing these symptoms in another tank etc.

I'll keep things updated. Thanks everyone!

http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Lumpy.html

Similar in places? Found on this site which was excellent.

http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/what-is-wrong-with-my-fish.html

Interesting and great info.

After looking at those pics I agree it doesn't look like ich. Ich spots are much smaller than the white spot I see on your fish.

Just to update.

Since I discontinued all treatment everyone is fairly healthy. I keep having small occurrences of what I'd now consider a bacterial infection, but they get plenty of water changes, aren't overstocked, filter is good enough. I'm keeping them at 72F. I think me and the fish will have to just live with it.

The moor has mostly recovered. Obviously the healed patches are a different colour, the interior lens of the eye is still slightly pale but she hasn't lost her sight in that eye it would seem. Her fins seem healed but are still white/damaged in places because they'd torn quite near the body in parts. I think this will take some time to grow out.

Thanks for your time everyone!

Glad things seem to be getting better.

stz wrote:

Just to update.

Since I discontinued all treatment everyone is fairly healthy. I keep having small occurrences of what I'd now consider a bacterial infection, but they get plenty of water changes, aren't overstocked, filter is good enough. I'm keeping them at 72F. I think me and the fish will have to just live with it.

The moor has mostly recovered. Obviously the healed patches are a different colour, the interior lens of the eye is still slightly pale but she hasn't lost her sight in that eye it would seem. Her fins seem healed but are still white/damaged in places because they'd torn quite near the body in parts. I think this will take some time to grow out.

Thanks for your time everyone!

Hey thanks for being part of the community first of all! Secondly I am siked that your fish are doing well, I am glad we could help. No one wants to loose fish and most of us sometimes freak out when something is wrong. Again I am glad we could help you out it took some time but that is why we have such a tight nit team here...to help, we are all in the hobby for the same reason.

Great see things are better!